Why is the 1grfe weak?

XMPLRY808 · Sep 15, 2015

I always hear that our motors can't handle high hp.. Even when fully built! Is this true?? What is the cause of it breaking?! What is the weak link on these motors even if tuned right built internals (sleeved, rods, pistons) thanks. Wanting to fully build these motors with no regrets.

Torspd · Sep 15, 2015

What is the power goal you are after?

XMPLRY808 · Sep 15, 2015

Torspd said:
What is the power goal you are after?

Me n my friend planning to go twins. He already has a single turbo set up but if I ever go this route I'm shoots 600+

SgtBadA · Sep 16, 2015

Just LS swap it. Head gaskets go a lot with high boost. The rods are another weak point with boost.

Torspd · Sep 16, 2015

There was already a guy who made just over 600 whp without sleeves. Twin setup, and very nice. Just need good rods, pistons, head studs, and head gaskets. With good tuning of course. Sleeves are just added security and strength.

To be honest, I have two blocks that are sleeved. One is nearing completion of being over bore to 3.800" from 3.701". Should be interesting to see how that ~4.17L engine will do. With the boost turned up.

The other is stroked and still has to be WPC treated.

iniazy · Sep 16, 2015

Define high HP.

Any engine, no matter how strong, will break if you don't tune it properly. Even legendary engines such as Chevy 350, Toyota 4.5L 1FZ engine, and Nissan Patrol's TB engine series will break if you run too lean for long, or don't have the timing set correctly.

I broke a 1GR engine, but I ran it for about 10,000 Km extremely lean and poorly tuned, I am surprised it lasted me 10,000 before two pistons had their oil ring valeys crack. Yet it still continued to run with two cracked pistons. I was surprised the other four pistons were still perfect despite that bad setup.

Granted, the engine is not as strong as those legends, being an aluminum block and not designed to handle that much power, but it is still capable of handling impressive power if done properly. I wouldn't go beyond 500 HP on it.

kwigs160966 · Sep 16, 2015

SgtBadA said:
Just LS swap it. Head gaskets go a lot with high boost. The rods are another weak point with boost.

LS2 FTW. It depends on what you are looking to get out of the motor and what you want to use it for or better put how much you would like to spend.

Redline · Sep 16, 2015

Weak...No..

You have to be more specific..... the 1grfe is built to last not give power. For example my fathers 06 Prerunner is at 230k miles and still running all he had to change was the starter to me that is not weak.

If you want power maybe choosing a better platform be a better route.

Gadget · Sep 16, 2015

The 1GR is much like most modern engines out there. It is designed to get a respectable service life with a focus on fuel economy and low production costs.

It is perfectly fine for its intended use. However; what fun is that? Toyota made a decent engine, but we can make it better, faster, stronger all for less than $6,000,000.

In the end you have to have reasonable expectations. It is a V6 engine in pickup truck. While we can make the truck way more fun and still get you to work on Monday morning, if you want to be out racing Lambos and Corvettes, maybe should pick a different vehicle to start with.

G

justin13703 · Sep 16, 2015

The bigger problem is that piece of crap transmission behind the motor. Even if you manage to make a healthy amount of power, you won't be able to shift it above 3k rpm for very long

XMPLRY808 · Sep 16, 2015

Gadget said:
The 1GR is much like most modern engines out there. It is designed to get a respectable service life with a focus on fuel economy and low production costs.

It is perfectly fine for its intended use. However; what fun is that? Toyota made a decent engine, but we can make it better, faster, stronger all for less than $6,000,000.

In the end you have to have reasonable expectations. It is a V6 engine in pickup truck. While we can make the truck way more fun and still get you to work on Monday morning, if you want to be out racing Lambos and Corvettes, maybe should pick a different vehicle to start with.

G

Do you guys build 2012+ motors with the air injection system? Would be very interested in one!

XMPLRY808 · Sep 16, 2015

Everybody keep saying go ls and what not and also hear people blowing motors that were less than 500 hp. But I wanna stay with this motor and just build it. I built Hondas before making 400+ hp with just a 4 cylinder. I believe that if you beef up the block to handle power with the right tune there shouldn't be anything wrong but like I said I just keep hearing bad stories about these motors even when built. But yeah t56 trans for sure!

thewarriordinghy · Sep 16, 2015

what would be the affects of building a NA engine? longer lasting?

Gadget · Sep 16, 2015

XMPLRY808 said:
Everybody keep saying go ls and what not and also hear people blowing motors that were less than 500 hp. But I wanna stay with this motor and just build it. I built Hondas before making 400+ hp with just a 4 cylinder. I believe that if you beef up the block to handle power with the right tune there shouldn't be anything wrong but like I said I just keep hearing bad stories about these motors even when built. But yeah t56 trans for sure!

The air injection system has nothing to do with the engine. That is all in the manifold so no worries there.

There is a limit to the block. Where that is a mater of debate.

I can tell you this, a race team in FL that was sponsored by TRD was getting built 5vz engines and they were pushing them to 1600 HP. In 2005 TRD made them switch to the 1GR and the block just could not support power anywhere near that. The block would distort terribly and break. All the other parts were fine. They dumped the TRD sponsorship and built their own 2JZ.

I do know of one engine with a TRD supercharger that was beat to death showed signs of block distortion by breaking the side bolts going to the main bearing caps.

So, there is a limit somewhere, but most of use will not get there.

G

XMPLRY808 · Sep 17, 2015

Gadget said:
The air injection system has nothing to do with the engine. That is all in the manifold so no worries there.

There is a limit to the block. Where that is a mater of debate.

I can tell you this, a race team in FL that was sponsored by TRD was getting built 5vz engines and they were pushing them to 1600 HP. In 2005 TRD made them switch to the 1GR and the block just could not support power anywhere near that. The block would distort terribly and break. All the other parts were fine. They dumped the TRD sponsorship and built their own 2JZ.

I do know of one engine with a TRD supercharger that was beat to death showed signs of block distortion by breaking the side bolts going to the main bearing caps.

So, there is a limit somewhere, but most of use will not get there.

G

Well I plan to use twin 6262 turbo so whatever that can push out will be my limit I guess if I have enough fuel to feed it. But I'm actually looking for a 2012 motor to build on the side. Thanks!

iniazy · Sep 17, 2015

I have seen numerous times Chevy Vortec 5.3 L engines (which are considered members of the LS engines) breaking and losing compression just by normal use. Seen that specifically in cars starting 2007 onwards. Seen it much more than I see 1GRs break.

justin13703 said:
The bigger problem is that piece of crap transmission behind the motor. Even if you manage to make a healthy amount of power, you won't be able to shift it above 3k rpm for very long

If you have the modern six speed manual yes. But the five speed auto, with proper upgrades, can handle a lot of power. Also the five speed R series manual transmissions are quite legendary, which we get here mated to the 1GR in the Middle East in 70 Series, Land Cruiser 200 V6, Fortuner and HiLux.

Torspd · Sep 17, 2015

The T56 or that 5 speed transmission are the ones to install. :top:

kwigs160966 · Sep 17, 2015

XMPLRY808 said:
Everybody keep saying go ls and what not and also hear people blowing motors that were less than 500 hp. But I wanna stay with this motor and just build it. I built Hondas before making 400+ hp with just a 4 cylinder. I believe that if you beef up the block to handle power with the right tune there shouldn't be anything wrong but like I said I just keep hearing bad stories about these motors even when built. But yeah t56 trans for sure!

It all comes down to money and how much you are willing to spend. So far my LS2 swap hasn't cost me a penny just the time to do it. I did also tear apart a donor car and the Tacoma to sell the parts to fund the project. The biggest disadvantage to the 1gr is the market for performance engines is not as large as an ls based motor ls motors are in everything from corvettes to pickup trucks. They are easy to find and easy to work on.

kwigs160966 · Sep 17, 2015

iniazy said:
I have seen numerous times Chevy Vortec 5.3 L engines (which are considered members of the LS engines) breaking and losing compression just by normal use. Seen that specifically in cars starting 2007 onwards. Seen it much more than I see 1GRs break.

If you have the modern six speed manual yes. But the five speed auto, with proper upgrades, can handle a lot of power. Also the five speed R series manual transmissions are quite legendary, which we get here mated to the 1GR in the Middle East in 70 Series, Land Cruiser 200 V6, Fortuner and HiLux.

To counter the ls 5.3s breaking yes it can happen. It can happen to any motor. The plus side is you can go to a junk yard or find one online for cheap. It cost me 2300$ for a used 1gr and I can get a lq4. For in the neighbour hood of 800$

Don't get me wrong I loved my supercharged 1gr and miss that blowoff valve. But for me I wanted more and I wanted to do the swap and I didn't want to spend that much lol

XTINCT_yota · Sep 17, 2015

I wouldn't say it's weak, cause there are other motors out there that can't handle as much, but it's not as strong as you would think it is.

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Why is the 1grfe weak?

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