Blown Motor and now Running Again!!

[THE MACF]

No hard feelings. I was just speaking in general of what I know. There will always be someone smarter, faster, more powerful, or whatever.

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

No hard feelings. I was just speaking in general of what I know. There will always be someone smarter, faster, more powerful, or whatever.

Agreed! I apologize.

 

[lamecargo]

I personally think Boost is Boost.......putting any boost to a stock motor is gonna cause problems in the end but.....i may be running the same psi as a S/C kit may but i have always said it and i will stand by it. PSI is important but CFM is just as important. at 5 psi i dynoed at about the same rwhp as a heavly modded TRD S/C running ~7 psi. so in regaurds to that i was running 10psi on a T4 60-1 turbo and it was peaking out around 12psi on really cold days. thats where i went wrong because as Gadget can tell you from his tuning in my truck. There was no Knock or detonation.

 

[XrunnIT]

I personally think Boost is Boost.......putting any boost to a stock motor is gonna cause problems in the end but.....i may be running the same psi as a S/C kit may but i have always said it and i will stand by it. PSI is important but CFM is just as important. at 5 psi i dynoed at about the same rwhp as a heavly modded TRD S/C running ~7 psi. so in regaurds to that i was running 10psi on a T4 60-1 turbo and it was peaking out around 12psi on really cold days. thats where i went wrong because as Gadget can tell you from his tuning in my truck. There was no Knock or detonation.

If your tune is good, and there is no knock then the rings will be fine. Being that you had ring damage means there was knock/detonation.

DS is pushing almost 450rwtq and didn't break any rings, so the rings can withstand the power as long as the tune is good. It only takes one knock under high load to crack them and cause damage.

Same thing with my motor, i had really bad knock, damaged the rings, and they were a ticking time bomb just waiting to 'asplode.

So somewhere along the road you knocked or were knocking. Anyways, glad to hear you came out on top. You played the game well. Can't wait to see what you do with it once its paid off!!

 

[disciple X]

im no expert on engines, but i dont think its accurate to say knock had to cause this. ds doesnt drive his truck from what ive read. lol. lame obviously drives his a LOT. theres a ton of things that could have gone wrong. with all that friction and heat any little blip can cause disaster...

 

[XrunnIT]

im no expert on engines, but i dont think its accurate to say knock had to cause this. ds doesnt drive his truck from what ive read. lol. lame obviously drives his a LOT. theres a ton of things that could have gone wrong. with all that friction and heat any little blip can cause disaster...

Your absolutely right there are a ton of things that could have happened. But it would have been knock/detonation that cracked/broke the ringlands. As for what caused the knock.. no idea, could have been one of MANY many things.

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

im no expert on engines, but i dont think its accurate to say knock had to cause this. ds doesnt drive his truck from what ive read. lol. lame obviously drives his a LOT. theres a ton of things that could have gone wrong. with all that friction and heat any little blip can cause disaster...

Heat fatigues the pistons and is usually involved with knock, knock causes MASSIVE pressure spikes and breaks shit pretty easily that isnt built for it.

My truck sits now and then but when it does get driven it gets driven hard.

I use it as my play toy - it sees very extreme conditions as a result.

Sitting is TERRIBLE for any vehicle, driving it every day is the best thing you can do for it.

It goes from sitting and collecting water to being driven very spiritedly constantly.

I see 380 ft-lbs almost instantly (2500 RPMs), and 450 ft-lbs at 3900 RPMs.

Torque breaks shit, especially TQ that isn't gradual.

It doesn't take much knock to do permanent damage under high stress.

Now mind you there are other reasons for component failure. But when it comes to these types of failures its usually knock/heat related - that is the tunes fault and the drivers fault (typically).

Very RARELY do we get a blown engine in the shop with this kind of damage that did not have preignition or knock.

We get blown engines from... oil starvation, water, sand/dirt/animals, dropped valves, improper timing (valve strikes piston), improper assembly, and a handful of other 'natural' reasons.

When there is NO other damage around other then some pits in the cylinder head and piston and a cracked/melted/fugged up piston - knock knock, whos there?

 

[2006nightrider]

Sucks that it happened, but at least it turned out good. Congrats on getting everything covered under warranty

X-1 is sold but the Turbo kit is still for sale and sitting in the Garage

I Have other plans down the road for the truck i just want to pay it off first then i will work on it

did u put the turbo back on?

...n00b

 

[rexrunner]

my egt were low, afr was plenty rich, never detected a knock? never had low oil psi, or even high coolant temps?

sooo this leads me to think, did u have ur injectors flow tested? maybe one is partially clogged?

i had the same thing happen, minus extreme shavings and scoring up the cylinder walls.

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

my egt were low, afr was plenty rich, never detected a knock? never had low oil psi, or even high coolant temps?

sooo this leads me to think, did u have ur injectors flow tested? maybe one is partially clogged?

i had the same thing happen, minus extreme shavings and scoring up the cylinder walls.

If you made the power you said you did (600 ft-lbs at the WHEEL) then i can believe it caused a component failure.

Was the damage on a thrust surface? What is pretty rich? Too much fuel pretty rich? What did you use to watch for knock?

600 ft-lbs on a stock engine is a time bomb.

This engine should hold 400 HP / 400 RWTQ with a cautious owner and tune pretty reliably.

Also a good tune can be great one day and bad the next when your dancing on that edge.

You can sit at a light, heat soak and start rattling away as you haul ass down the road - where as had you cruised first & let everything cool back down again it wouldnt.

There are too many variables in the equation.

More often then not (at least around here with new customers that come into our shop) heat & detonation (they go hand in hand a lot) kill the engine.

Look at jason... Kid drove that thing like mad.

His intercooler pump stopped working due to a bad relay, he knocked, broken ringland and scored surface - it was over very quickly.

Then you have guys like steve-O (ntinhri) who just beat the living shit out of the thing banging gears all the way who are ok. Steve is running NST lowers & upper pulleys - hes making a HUGE amount of heat lol. He recognizes knock himself, and runs a good tune.

All I am saying is be careful guys, this is the #1 killer of most performance minded engines.

A factory stock boost engine can fail because of this, as can a modded one.

It is all in the tune and the understanding of the driver.

THINK ABOUT

- The quality of fuel that your filling up with
- The temperatures / conditions your running in
- The heatsoak the system is taking on
- How long you keep your foot in it
- How much fuel your forcing down the engines throat to keep things cool and when.
- What gear your driving in and the load your putting on the engine.
- Your data logs for fueling (do you have enough for all conditions) & spark issues

 

[shaggy08xr]

Hey bro I'm glad u got the truck fixed bro. There is some really deep $h!+ going down in here. I think I'm actually getting smarter readying this post. LOL

 

[lamecargo]

I agree with DS to a point....but the rings can fail for other reasons also. by saying ring fail because of knock can work in most cases but components can fail abnormally also. all it takes is the right conditions....im not saying mine wasnt knock or detonation....but my tune was dead on. i think mine failed becasue of the trip to cali my PVC system switch failed and i pressureized the crank case under high boost......UBER FAIL on my part and taking the boost away only masked the symptoms not cured them. it was just a matter of time before the failure that happened. I was stupid to think i fixed it by taking boost away but we all learn in different ways. mine happened to be this way

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

Yes most definitely there are other mechanical reasons why things fail.

A lot of times mechanical issues contribute to it also, and knock is the final wrecking ball.

Typically pressurizing the crankcase like that will begin to blow out seals and other easier areas pressure can exit through.

You have multiple areas that will relieve pressure when forced to other then the PCV passageways (for instance the oil dipstick tube).

Since you never got to see what actually happened inside the cylinders we will never know what happened.

Speculation is just pissing in the wind at this point - tear down and full inspection of all components stops you from making the same mistake twice.

dead on tunes arent perfect either - there are many opposing outside influences that affect how dead on that tune is.

be careful, dont pop it again!!!!!

theyd probably fight you for the 2nd one lol.

 

[Yardie]

I'll buy your turbo kit for $5 :top:

 

[lamecargo]

lol yardie out of left feild

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

yeah wtf lol?

 

[MusTrd]

With the way Tyler drives, it's probably worth about $5 now :laugh:

 

[lamecargo]

Wow thanks for the low blow on my sale :thumpdown:

 

[ntinhri]

Then you have guys like steve-O (ntinhri) who just beat the living shit out of the thing banging gears all the way who are ok. Steve is running NST lowers & upper pulleys - hes making a HUGE amount of heat lol. He recognizes knock himself, and runs a good tune.

I have some very good engine tuners!:top: Xrunnit, Death, and APR have all inspected my logs and guided me. However Gadget has looked over my stuff too.. I typically will get feed back from atleast 2 before I beat the hell outta my truck!:rock:

 

[Yardie]

lol yardie out of left feild

yeah wtf lol?

:laugh::laugh: From the chatroom the other night. Figured I would offer you what you told me to sell my truck for.