Composite springs + helper bags?

[revobreaker]

Just wanted to know if you guys had any information. I know there were clearance issues with the swaybars and shocks, but I have not heard of anyone using them with the composite leafs.

As I understand it the composites are supposed to handle as much if not more load than the stock leafs, but I know the helper bags will concentrate pressure on another part of the leaf.

Hoping you guys could tell me if it is a really bad idea, or just an untested one...

 

[CBRBob]

The only major difference I can think of is that since the leaf itself will sit closer to the frame, perhaps there may not be enough room for the bag. Lowered with the stock springs simply moves the axle up and keeps the spring in place. Might want to measure the leaf to frame distance first, then call the mfgr. to see if it will work.

 

[revobreaker]

That's a good idea

 

[revobreaker]

Ok gotta rough measurement of 6in. When it stops raining tomorrow I will jack it up and be sure.

Any chance you (or anyone) could check the stock spring for me.

So the leaf should be fine, just the bag might not fit in there correctly is what you are thinking? Maybe I can find a shorter bag....

 

[STONER-X]

maybe call the company that sold you the comp leafs.... since they are not metal like stock clamping on them might cause a stress point and cause them to crack... i know i read not to use slapper bars with them...

 

[revobreaker]

Thats kinda why the thread is here, XII bought SittinSic which is where I got my leafs from originally. Was hoping they could provide some insight..

 

[BondXII]

Thats kinda why the thread is here, XII bought SittinSic which is where I got my leafs from originally. Was hoping they could provide some insight..

Got place to post. LOL

The composite leaf springs are a very capable spring with overall performance and working performance with payload. We have these springs designed to withstand AT LEAST the payload the OEM springs are rated for.

On the other hand, any additional payload assistance that is attached to these springs we can not say yes to.

Reasoning of this, other than the obvious liability issues, is that since these are composite and not steel. There is always a concern of whatever brackets you use could pinch the spring causing a weak point. If you do manage to install something that doesn't damage the spring. You still have the issue of a new pressure point. These are designed to have the pressure point in a certain area (at the axle) and the weight is distributed throughout the rest of the spring. When you install the bag, it is not at the strongest point of the spring and may be too much pressure for it as it is concentrated in this new area of the spring.

Hopefully that makes sense. I know that there are a couple people here that have done this without issues and thy may chime in. As any modding goes...there's always risks when it's not a bolt on application.

 

[revobreaker]

Thanks! That all makes sense to me.

I am also now interested to hearing from the people that did use air assist on the composite leafs.

 

[STONER-X]

unless things changed i think and only think that S-Sick used flex-form as their manufacture for the composite leafs.... i was on there site (flex-form) and came across there version of helper spring or a slapper bar type load helper...

they call it a "torque arrestor" go to the bottom of the page...

http://www.flex-form.com/products.asp

i this product will be the proper item to use with the composite leaf it makes no contact with the leafs

 

[revobreaker]

I believe you are right. Thank you for the link.

That, however does nothing for the squat when you have a load in the bed. So I may have to find another solution altogether.

 

[BSP06XRU]

unless things changed i think and only think that S-Sick used flex-form as their manufacture for the composite leafs.... i was on there site (flex-form) and came across there version of helper spring or a slapper bar type load helper...

they call it a "torque arrestor" go to the bottom of the page...

http://www.flex-form.com/products.asp

i this product will be the proper item to use with the composite leaf it makes no contact with the leafs

Wouldn't work for the X-Runner. Our rear axles are above the composite leaf.
Their Flex-Track is mounted below the axle in the photo.
Geometry would be all wrong for our Xs.

 

[FILBILLY]

Firestone makes a couple kits for the Tacoma. The Ride Rite 2410 mounts in between the frame and axle. Top bracket mounts in place of the bump stop and lower bracket mounts above the axle. Clearance may be an issue.

I can't post links yet, so check out Firestone Industrial, Ride Rite, kit 2410.

 

[BondXII]

Wouldn't work for the X-Runner. Our rear axles are above the composite leaf.
Their Flex-Track is mounted below the axle in the photo.
Geometry would be all wrong for our Xs.

It's just a sample photo. They make the bracket for both under and over axle springs. This wouldn't help in this case as its not a helper spring. It's a traction improvement part preventing axle wrap just like the old hot rod traction bars. I thought about adding these to our parts offerings, but they would be the same price as the composites themselves and didn't see this being a hot item. URD and Calvert Racing already have great products to help this issue.

Firestone makes a couple kits for the Tacoma. The Ride Rite 2410 mounts in between the frame and axle. Top bracket mounts in place of the bump stop and lower bracket mounts above the axle. Clearance may be an issue.

I can't post links yet, so check out Firestone Industrial, Ride Rite, kit 2410.

This would actually work. The only issue I see is that it may be too much bag. Their kit is based on a stock travel height. You might end up needing a shorter bag to compensate for the drop. Other than that it should work nice for what the OP is trying to do.

http://www.firestoneindustrial.com/site-resources/ride-rite/installation/2410.pdf

Here's the link for the instructions on this kit.

 

[revobreaker]

NICE!

I got the Air lift in yesterday, and there is no way it is gonna work because of the height difference in between the axle/spring anyway...

Gonna order the firestone one tonight from amazon and give an update asap!


***If anyone wants the Airlift kit let me know ASAP or I will send it back***

 

[BondXII]

NICE!

I got the Air lift in yesterday, and there is no way it is gonna work because of the height difference in between the axle/spring anyway...

Gonna order the firestone one tonight from amazon and give an update asap!

***If anyone wants the Airlift kit let me know ASAP or I will send it back***

That's what I don't like with this kit going on the composite. If you were to tighten that u-bolt too much it could put stress on the composite and cause stress fractures.

 

[FILBILLY]

I saw a similar kit installed before, they ran the air lines to the rear license plate screw holes and finished them off with a couple bullet tips. Easy access for filling and looked pretty sweet too!

 

[revobreaker]

No way will the firestone kit work either, it fits right between the frame and the axle, and with the composite (or anyone with blocks I imagine..) there is no where near enough room to fit the brackets and bag in there. It is not like some of the other kits I saw pictures of where the bag is offset to the side of the frame.

I took a few measurements to leave here for future reference.

Bottom line, composites will not work with these helper bags. It is going to take some kind of custom setup to use bags on the composites. Price you pay trying to mix aftermarket components together

Thanks for all the help guys

 

[BSP06XRU]

You could just put in air shock like the Big Dog did:
http://www.xr-underground.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=9093

 

[STONER-X]

what might help out is if you make an extra shock mount... then add a pair of air shocks and keep the performance ones on at the same time... then when you need some extra help you fill up the shocks..

maybe look at the diff.... see if there is a place to mount a solo air bag in the center of the truck... you might have to make a bracket to keep it off the plastic bottom...

 

[CBRBob]

If you get rid of the stock bump stop bracket, you will be able to make one of the outboard kits work from the diff tube to the framerail. Just make sure you have tire to framerail clearance.