Re-Installing My Supercharger

[iniazy]

UCON is too expensive for me, and I'm not sure the Middle-Eastern Fortuner ECU and sensors are completely identical to the US-Spec FJs and 4Runners. So might need tuning anyway.

I'm getting this system installed, tuned, and dynoed for only $533, and he guarantees his tune, in the sense he will re-tune it if there's any problem with his tune.

He has a strong reputation and has previously tuned TRD Supercharged FJs. I may not necessarily go for his chip, I may go for Unichip or Haltek. Haven't completely decided yet.

Also, to set expectations here, this is very low boost, only 4 PSI. So I don't expect massive power gains. I'm hoping 30 to 40% increase in power.

 

[iniazy]

I got an initial tune on the Mustang Dyno with a new piggyback.

The tuner said there was a lot of knocking, and he had to retard the timing 15 degrees to eliminate the knocking. Unfortunately, that results in much less power, peak power was only 201 HP, and peak torque was only 236 lbs.ft. that's a 19 HP and 9 lbs.ft more only. So you guys are right, to get the most out of that setup, I need to have an intercooler.

So I took the car for a spin, and it definitely did not behave well. He apparently retarded the timing over the whole map, including low RPM, and the car is barely able to take off. Also, the engine keeps cutting off at 4000 RPM sometimes, for some reason.

He had disconnected my AFR gauge, so I couldn't know why the cutoff was happening. Could have been a drop in fuel pressure, but not sure.

We agreed to have him work on the tune while I drive about on Saturday to try to rectify the problem.

I'll keep you posted with the progress.

 

[Gadget]

I tried running the 1GR with a Rotrex and no charge air cooler. Horrible result.

I can say that if you do have an effective charge air cooler and a proper tune you can make a lot of power from it.

G

 

[iniazy]

I can see that. I'm surprised, even with just 4 PSI of boost it still needs an intercooler. I wonder how guys at bullet cars are selling the kit without the intercooler.

 

[iniazy]

I've ordered that nice intake plenum from Dave at Alpine Developments; will take a couple of weeks to make.

It utilizes a very nice compact intercooler design, here's a page that explains how it works:
http://www.laminova.se/cooler-guide/intercooler/

Here's how they look like:

Here's how it's designed:
Top view:

Angled view:

Air guides (air slots) design, to force air to flow through the core fins rather than around them:

I'm weary of Alpine Developments products, but this is one thing that seems to be designed really well, and fits my purpose, as I don't have room for a large air to air intercooler. Especially that I got a steel bullbar and a winch, and the Fortuner is smaller and tighter than a Tacoma or a 4Runner.

Will cost me $1900, quite steep but I think it's really worth it.

 

[Torspd]

I know nothing of that company Alpine Development Products. If you don't mind, what makes yous weary of them?

 

[Gadget]

They have the worst rep in the industry and have left a trail of debt throughout the world. They still owe Scott $10,000 from many years ago.

G

 

[Torspd]

Sounds similar to the owners of ADV1 wheels. Formerly 360 Forged.......

 

[iniazy]

Thanks Gadget. That pretty much sums it up. I think they are sincere with good intentions, and had good history in the 80s, but they're clumsy and broke, and don't have time or money to do proper R&D. Their only selling point is that they take credit for the TRD supercharger kit for the 2RZ and 3RZ, which TRD outsourced building to them. I blame them for my busted engine, they sent me a pulley that was too small for the cooler, and their cooler design was ineffective and provided no real cooling of charge air.

I'm changing the design to incorporate four intercooler cores instead of three. Almost the same cost, just an additional core and air guide, minimal extra cost but huge benefits.

 

[Gadget]

The 2/3RZ was an interesting thing to watch evolve.

The way that all happened was a couple of people imported a kit from South Africa and installed it. Back then it had the Eaton M-90 supercharger on it. You know TRD trolls the forums and they saw that looking like it was becoming popular so somehow John C and TRD got together and did a deal. They added the TRD logo and dropped it down to use the Eaton M-62 supercharger.

When it hit the streets it ran poorly like the 5VZ version did and URD came out with a fuel and tuning upgrade to fix it.

The TRD deal did not last long for some reason and they parted ways. URD then picked up the supercharger and marketed it with our fuel kit. It was very expensive and a very slow mover. We had to buy them in batches and it was just to hard to tie that amount of money up on the shelf and we eased out of that deal and LC Engineering picked it up. Then they did some deal where LC got an exclusive. This is when Alpine had a shop in LA and suddenly left California. A short time later John C showed up at URD looking for work and was complaining abut the deal with LC. We told him we were not interested in hearing about the LC deal and that we had been doing business for a while and there had been no issues.

Now here is the funniest thing, as he was leaving URD the head of sales for another supercharger company rolls in and started bad mouthing John C and saying how he would never be a dealer for his company and he knows all about him and his company. Well, just a few months later John C was a dealer for that supercharger company.

Just before he left to go back to South Africa, John C called up URD and asked if we wanted to buy a bunch of the TRD 4.7L superchargers that were supposed to be destroyed. URD had bid on the destruction contract and won the bid until the head of TRD found out it was URD and flipped out. Anyway, we expressed interest in getting the 4.7L units until we were told the terms. We had to rent a large truck. Show up at a warehouse in Torrance CA late at night and meet him and load up the superchargers. Then drive South into Mexico with him in the truck. Then pay for them in Mexico and drive back to the US with them still in the truck. Remember I was still working as a lawman and there was no way I was getting involved in a deal like that where superchargers are getting walked out the back door of some three letter company in Torrence late at night. We declined that deal.

John C passed away leaving a trail of debt and bad feelings throughout the industry.

Everyone you talk to in the industry that has done business with that guy has very similar stories to tell.

G

 

[iniazy]

Wow! What a story! Thanks for sharing it.

 

[iniazy]

I have been chatting with my tuner, and he told me information that caused serious doubt in my head. I would like to here from you.

My understanding is that the 1GR-equipped vehicles (old gen) had four O2 sensor, two narrow-band in the front and two special sensors in the rear. The ones we need to control to get the tune right are the rear ones. The rear ones are sensors that provide the signal not in voltage, but in current, where more current means higher AFR (or lower? can't remember), and hence it would not help intercepting the signal, but rather we need to redirect it to play with the current instead of the voltage. Which is why it is complex to control.

Now, this guy is telling me he is not controlling any O2 sensor at all. He claims that isn't necessary, as the car goes into open loop after 4000 RPM. Yeah, I know it does, but under 4000 you need to control it. He also claims that the rear sensors are ONLY used to detect a bad or removed cat converter, and has nothing to do with AFR. And only the front ones control the AFR.

So which one of us is right?

Thanks,

 

[Slywhitty]

Fronts are the afr sensors. Rears are just 02s which like he said only moniter the cats. That's why you need an o2 sim to keep your cel off when you put headers on

 

[iniazy]

But my fronts are only narrow band sensors. I was able to see it on my previous piggyback, voltage was between 0 and 1. I'm surprised, cuz I have put on headers and removed my front cats, and I did not get any code thrown at all ever since.

 

[Torspd]

Which year model is yours?

 

[Lord Helmet]

:hmmmm2: Gotta see the outcome of this story.

 

[SooRunner]

In your case I would run!

 

[Edgeman]

I've also always thought the first O2 sensors were the ones providing the primary feedback to the PCM, so it knows how to adjust spark and fuel injector timing & duration. And the two downstream O2 sensors monitor & provide feedback on cat operation.

 

[Torspd]

I've also always thought the first O2 sensors were the ones providing the primary feedback to the PCM, so it knows how to adjust spark and fuel injector timing & duration. And the two downstream O2 sensors monitor & provide feedback on cat operation.

This is correct.

 

[Gadget]

The rear sensors are used for way more than just watching the cats.

G