Toyota To Replace 4 Mil Gas Pedals...

[blastap]

gadget of all people to be hating on pink zipties. zip ties make the world go around

 

[rav-o-nation]

since i am part of the toyota family around here i get all the news really fast all they are going to do it replace the pedal with a shorter one no cutting or anything like that cuz well those welds can brake. my buddy has a pos ranger that he had the brake pedal welded on to the the mounting braket it broke off of. well about 3 months down the road it broke again so if they want to try to weld it tell them to F off that would be worse than a stuck gas pedal

 

[46&2_X]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091125/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_floor_mats

This crap is out of control.

Whoever "loses control" of the car with a stuck accelerator pedal shouldn't be on the road.

What kind of world are we living in?

The kind were this happens far too often. Usually it's a in a parking lot and they do Doughnuts till they run into the Store lol.

It probably comes down to people simply aren't aware of how to drive properly as they should be. The guy who died was driving some high end Lexus. People get so used to the Car doing all kinds of things for them, they just kind of point and shoot. When it does something other than that, they freeze up and have no idea what to do.

 

[BlackCat]

I realize it's difficult to say what someone would do in that situation. However, the driver was a cop. Cops are trained to drive and think in critical situations. It also seems to me the brakes would be a very natural reaction. People brake for everything else. I'm not questioning them having the wreck. I'm just questioning the speed.

I did some checking into the whole Lexus / CHP officer incident. Yes, the officer was using his brakes. Witness accounts from the scene of the accident state that the car's front and rear tires were smoking (some said there were flames from the tires) while the car was still moving. That suggests the brakes were being fully applied for quite some time. And, in most cars, the throttle will override the brakes. Just how much the throttle overrides the brakes depends on the specific vehicle and how fast it's going when the brakes are applied. Vehicle braking systems are only able to dissipate a limited quantity of energy at a given rate. And at higher speeds, its not tough to overwhelm brakes since kinetic energy is a square power function of velocity. What that means is, go twice as fast, your brakes have to work four times as hard. To that end, one of the elements Toyota is initiating through the floormat recall is a "smart brake" feature on many of the recalled models which electronically kills the throttle if the brakes are applied (specifically, many of the recalled models with push button start/stop switches).

And as for killing the ignition, the subject car had a push button start/stop, not a keyed ignition. Those not familiar with it might not know that killing the engine while the vehicle in motion requires pushing the button for 4-5 seconds continuously, not a simple jab at the button - or multiple jabs at the button which I'm sure someone in a panic would have done. I don't know if the officer knew about that. Remember, he was trained to effecitvely pursue in a Ford Crown Victoria with the Interceptor Package, not a Lexus. This fact is also another reason why the Lexus ES models (like what the officer was driving) are getting the "smart brake mod" as part of the floormat recall.

Now, the one thing the officer could have done that wouldn't have been much different in the Lexus than his squad car would have been to knock the gear selector into Neutral. That was one thing he should have tried and that alone probably would have saved him and his family. Perhaps he got freaked when the pedal got stuck in WOT and the tranny automatically downshifted a gear or two, beyond what the officer would have expected, understood or knew how to deal with. I don't know why he didn't. I'm sure a lot of people are asking that question now.

So, I guess the moral of this story is, yes you are right. As a California Highway Patrol officer, he would have been trained to think critically and deal with emergency / panic situations. However, like I said in my original posting, panic situations can turn even the most seasoned and logical individuals into mush.

We can theorize all we want about what he should have done or what he didn't do. We can also theorize about what we think we would do in the same circumstances... but the fact of the matter is, we don't know.

Beware of overconfidence.



As a side point, unrelated to this discussion but ...

Apparently, the car was not the officer's own car, but a loaner from a local Lexus dealer.

The dealer was working on the officer's personal vehicle.

The Lexus loaner was equipped with the optional factory all-weather floor mats, not the regular carpetted mats.

There was an NHTSA mandated recall on those mats back in 2007 because they tended to bind against the lower edge of the gas pedal and depress it.

The mats were redesigned after the recall, but I can't find any reports to indicate if the mats in the Lexus loaner were the recalled mats or the new ones.

However, there were no conclusive details (so far publically released) from the crash investigation to prove that the mats did indeed bind up against the pedal. It's all conjecture right now.

However, Toyota already does have a rap against it for floormat issues as evidenced by the fact that the NHTSA (National Highway Transportation Safety Admin) asked to be a part of the crash investigation alongside the CHP and the San Diego Sherriff's Dept.

Normally, the NHTSA doesn't get involved in personal vehicle crash investigations. But the publicity around this one got them curious, especially after they found out that the crash vehicle had suspect floor mats that may have been involved in a recall 2 yrs ago.

The NHTSA normally publicly releases the results of their crash investigation, I'd like to get a hold of a copy of this report.

 

[thebenmack]

idk about tou guys's trusks but when i want my truckto stop running i just turn off the key:stupid:

 

[BlackCat]

idk about tou guys's trusks but when i want my truckto stop running i just turn off the key:stupid:

But what if you're driving an ES 350 and you don't have a key ... what if you have a push button start / stop switch ... what do you do then ?

 

[thebenmack]

But what if you're driving an ES 350 and you don't have a key ... what if you have a push button start / stop switch ... what do you do then ?

whatever you would do to kill the motor

 

[BlackCat]

and that is ... ?

The fact of the matter is, most people don't know that in a vehicle with a push button stop / start, simply jabbing at the button while the vehicle is in gear and in motion doesn't kill the engine. You have to press and hold the button for 5seconds or so. The exact procedure may also vary between vehicles, the owner's manual will say. Scary, since I've rented and driven many vehicles with these switches and didn't know this fact until the Toyota floormat recall and the story of the runaway Lexus came out.

 

[fckwalm]

my dad told me about cutting my gas pedal today... i thought he already hit the booze early... (or maybe i was just half asleep) but either way, fix it dont cut it

 

[nine9six]

and that is ... ?

Neutral? :ahhhhh:

 

[rich017]

I drove a 2006 4 cyl., reg. cab Tacoma and the throttle stuck on me at wide open throttle. I put it in neutral and rode the rev limiter until I could pull off to the side of the road and see what the problem was. The floormat wasn't the problem. Personally, I don't like throttle by wire systems. I like the direct connection of a throttle cable.

I think it is an electrical problem also. The lady that ran into a semi said that she even looked at her pedal and it was not stuck.

The floor mats were never the problem because all Toyota vehicles have the clips to hold them. But then again if it was an electrical problem they would be able to hook up the wrecked car to a scanner and review everything that car was doing during an accident. Meaning that they could see what caused the throttle to stick or what the computer told it to do.

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

Any semi-intelligant individual should able grasp neutral and pull over.

Toyota uses multiple ECU inputs (two on the throttle body), one on the pedal that constantly monitor throttle blade position in relation to throttle position.

Their TPS fail-safe system is pretty ironclad.

These crashes are nothing more then moronic people and their inability to function under a semi stressful situation.

I wouldn't get crazy stressed out over a stuck throttle, it happens all to often on other types of vehicles.

Back in the day the carb slides would stick, CV diaphrams failed to return them to an idle position, mechanical throttle cables/linkages would freeze or stick open.

 

[blastap]

that is where the push/pull type cables came from. they would stick wide open from flow, or thats the reasoning for it. not sure if it actually happened or not

 

[WCD]

Tragic that people had to die over this. The CHP driver panicked when a simple shift to neutral would have saved the family.

I heard the 911 tape for this and at first I thought it was a prank. It was hard to believe. What's also tragic is the 911 operator failing to suggest the shift to neutral before it was too late.

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

that is where the push/pull type cables came from. they would stick wide open from flow, or thats the reasoning for it. not sure if it actually happened or not

Even in push - pull throttles, the tube itself gets stuck, one cable can still freeze, or a slide can fail to return.

 

[X-Pablo]

Yeah prety stupid, what's even stupider is Toyota Canada is not following Toyota USa on this recall or the mat recall, they said for owners to remove the mats from their car/truck, that's it end of story. No zip tie-downs or pedal repalacements just toss your mat out. :bird:

Nice to see that TCI once again is performing another cost cutting move on their part, and not showing any interest in the convienence or safety of Canadian Toyota owners, BUT they did send me an emai today to announce their agreement with Live Nation and that as a Club Toyota member I can get discounts for Live Nation concert tickets. :fail:
Way to go Toyota Canada! :canada:

 

[BlackCat]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-11-25-toyota-gaspedals_N.htm​

Safety advocates want Toyota to do more on pedal issue
Updated 10h 9m ago | 195 Comments | 46 Recommend E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions | ​

By Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY
LOS ANGELES — Auto safety advocates say Toyota's recall plan to fix 3.8 million cars and trucks doesn't go far enough to address complaints about a potential for runaway acceleration in its vehicles.
Toyota says it will immediately tell owners of seven Toyota and Lexus vehicles over several model years to bring them to dealers to have part of the accelerator pedal cut off. The work is intended to be a stopgap fix to keep slipping floor mats from jamming them wide open. A redesigned permanent replacement pedal is expected to be available to install next spring.
On some – but not all – of the recalled models, Toyota also is promising changes to their computers to create what the industry calls "smart pedals." The system shuts off an engine if a driver stomps on the gas and brake pedals at the same time, as could happen in a panic situation such as a runaway car.

DRIVE ON: Does Toyota floor-mat recall solution go far enough?

The recall follows the death of a California Highway Patrol officer and three family members in a runaway Lexus ES 350 last August. A passenger calling police from the speeding car before the crash reported that it couldn't be stopped.

Primary blame went to an improperly secured floor mat jamming the accelerator. But a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration report also found that in such a situation, this Lexus' brake pedal would require 150 pounds of pressure to stop, that there was no warning that the engine start-stop button must be held for three seconds for shut off, and that neutral was hard to find on the shifter. "It was the perfect storm" of snafus, says Jake Fisher of Consumer Reports.
Toyota's fix-it plan announced Wednesday with NHTSA doesn't fully address sudden-acceleration issues, safety advocates say. They assert that:
•Other models are at risk for jammed floor mats. Owners of Toyota and Lexus models beyond the seven models covered by the recall have complained of jams and runaway vehicles, says Sean Kane of Safety Research & Strategies.
"If Toyota says they are having an unintended acceleration issue, why are (those other vehicles) not being recalled, as well?" he asks.
•Floor mats are not the only issue, so more models should get smart pedals. Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, says Toyota has had unintended acceleration complaints – including in models where floor mats are not an issue – for a decade now, starting with a Lexus model in Great Britain.
"We do not believe this is just a floor-mat problem," he says, and says Toyota should expand the range of vehicles getting the smart pedal to include all with electronic throttle linkages.
Given how the problem has dragged on, lax enforcement by an underfunded NHTSA may also be an issue, says Sid Shapiro, a Wake Forest University regulatory law expert. Toyota, he adds, could try to be more "transparent" about the troubles.

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-11-25-toyota-gaspedals_N.htm​

Safety advocates want Toyota to do more on pedal issue
Updated 10h 9m ago | 195 Comments | 46 Recommend E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions | ​

By Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY
LOS ANGELES — Auto safety advocates say Toyota's recall plan to fix 3.8 million cars and trucks doesn't go far enough to address complaints about a potential for runaway acceleration in its vehicles.
Toyota says it will immediately tell owners of seven Toyota and Lexus vehicles over several model years to bring them to dealers to have part of the accelerator pedal cut off. The work is intended to be a stopgap fix to keep slipping floor mats from jamming them wide open. A redesigned permanent replacement pedal is expected to be available to install next spring.
On some – but not all – of the recalled models, Toyota also is promising changes to their computers to create what the industry calls "smart pedals." The system shuts off an engine if a driver stomps on the gas and brake pedals at the same time, as could happen in a panic situation such as a runaway car.

DRIVE ON: Does Toyota floor-mat recall solution go far enough?

The recall follows the death of a California Highway Patrol officer and three family members in a runaway Lexus ES 350 last August. A passenger calling police from the speeding car before the crash reported that it couldn't be stopped.

Primary blame went to an improperly secured floor mat jamming the accelerator. But a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration report also found that in such a situation, this Lexus' brake pedal would require 150 pounds of pressure to stop, that there was no warning that the engine start-stop button must be held for three seconds for shut off, and that neutral was hard to find on the shifter. "It was the perfect storm" of snafus, says Jake Fisher of Consumer Reports.
Toyota's fix-it plan announced Wednesday with NHTSA doesn't fully address sudden-acceleration issues, safety advocates say. They assert that:
•Other models are at risk for jammed floor mats. Owners of Toyota and Lexus models beyond the seven models covered by the recall have complained of jams and runaway vehicles, says Sean Kane of Safety Research & Strategies.
"If Toyota says they are having an unintended acceleration issue, why are (those other vehicles) not being recalled, as well?" he asks.
•Floor mats are not the only issue, so more models should get smart pedals. Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, says Toyota has had unintended acceleration complaints – including in models where floor mats are not an issue – for a decade now, starting with a Lexus model in Great Britain.
"We do not believe this is just a floor-mat problem," he says, and says Toyota should expand the range of vehicles getting the smart pedal to include all with electronic throttle linkages.
Given how the problem has dragged on, lax enforcement by an underfunded NHTSA may also be an issue, says Sid Shapiro, a Wake Forest University regulatory law expert. Toyota, he adds, could try to be more "transparent" about the troubles.

WOW....

The media really enjoys hammering Toyota over anything they can grab ahold of.

They must be chevy owners :laugh:.

"Primary blame went to an improperly secured floor mat jamming the accelerator. But a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration report also found that in such a situation, this Lexus' brake pedal would require 150 pounds of pressure to stop, that there was no warning that the engine start-stop button must be held for three seconds for shut off, and that neutral was hard to find on the shifter. "It was the perfect storm" of snafus, says"

I guess Toyota should also provide a learn how to drive your car seminar free of charge in compliance with the recall.

CAUTION: HOT COFFEE IS HOT.

 

[blastap]

this entire recall is such horse crap. if my shit went wide open again,happened before in a 1 ton pick up and all i did was reach under and pull the mat out. i hope i'm calm enough to not be a retard and pile it up.

 

[Grumpy]

Neutral hard to find on the shifter? Really....is that what they come up with? Doesn't all automatic transmission have it between reverse & drive? One-up that, don't you shift pass it to go into drive.:dontknow:

Oh snap, the perfect storm.....where's the brake pedal? Its kinda hard to find.:hmmmm2: