Turbo/SC/NO2, which one will get the most power

[unknown]

I see alot of people asking how powerful they can get with a given setup. The thing that most of these people share in common is that they don't want to or can't afford to crack thier engine open.

so for educational reason i would like to here from anyone who has an argument why one power adder can get more power out of a stock block than another.

i also would like to hear from anyone who has blown a motor on here.

 

[Yotaman]

I know of a blown motora, but I'm not gonna say who it is. Wasn't b/c of to much boost or NOS though.


Gadget has hit 400+ rwhp w/ his URD MKII setup.
I think Megabitz was in that area w/ his TT Setup also.

 

[unknown]

i think 99% of the time people blow the motor it's blamed on internals or heat, but the real culprit is most often the tuner

 

[Yotaman]

In this instance it wasn't the tune..:top:

But you are correct about the tuning aspect of motor failures.

 

[unknown]

so what makes a SC worse for the motor than a turbo?

 

[Simplex Effect]

so what makes a SC worse for the motor than a turbo?

It takes power for a supercharger to make power.

Turbo does not take power to make power.

 

[Yotaman]

It takes power for a supercharger to make power.

Turbo does not take power to make power.

agreed....

 

[XrunnIT]

You will always get more power out of a properly built turbo setup. Superchargers have parasitic loss to begin with, and you are limited to how much boost you can make before your efficiency goes to hell. Turbo's the boost is as much as you can afford, and as much as the motor can handle.

There is only so much power you will be able to get out of our stock block. You can build your internals, up the compression, bore it out, put in a set of aggressive cams, etc. At the end you'll have as much hp as any turbo or s/c, BUT you will spend a lot more money doing it. As it is right now cams and internals will cost you almost as much as the supercharger, but won't net you anywhere near the gains, even with the same bolt-ons.

Sure with enough money you can build a powerful N/A, but is it worth it?? IMO no you'll spend a lot more money for as much if not a lot less hp/tq. Its just not cost effective. Now if you take a large displacement v8, that's a different story. Depending on the motor you can build a 600-700hp v8 N/A for about the cost of a forced induction system.

As for nitrous... sure you can build the motor so it can handle a 250 shot for less money then a blower, and put down some impressive numbers. But what happens when you run out of nitrous?? its a low powered truck that cost a lot of money.

 

[WCD]

so what makes a SC worse for the motor than a turbo?

An S/C is not worse for the motor, it just won't make as much power.
The most boost I've heard run through this motor safely is 15 psi. I still don't know how he did it. It was with a turbo, and the guy who did it (Heloboby7 on this board) obviously knew what he was doing.
I would puss out on going that high in boost on stock internals. With a 10:1 compression motor, most folks here have gone no higher than 10 psi on the stock motor. As far as I know, the motors in question are running just fine.

 

[46&2_X]

i think 99% of the time people blow the motor it's blamed on internals or heat, but the real culprit is most often the tuner

Lol because they decided to run too much boost which caused too much stress and/or heat?

I remeber reading a story about some Factory Racing team that was building an inline 4 for import drag racing.

I want to say it was Chevrolet. Doing their Cobalt Drag Racing car. Anyways.

They said in order to find the weak links in the system, they did NOS and kept adding more till something blew, once they were throwing a 300 Shot through it they where still running Stock Rods, Crank, and Block. Then they went to a Turbo, went through some more parts. Then back to the NOS.

In the end they ran off the Shelf Parts with the Stock Block and were getting in the range of 700 HP.

But really, this is kind of an odd question. Because all 3 are equally capable of making the same amount of power. The only problem is engnering.

With the Turbo it's pretty easy to go to a larger Turbo as you have a lot of options. The S/C could make just as much power if you had more options for them. As it stands right now (and I could be wrong) we have 2 options. URD and TRD. Both are ment for a rather streetable truck. We don't have anything like a 8-71 or 10-71 blower for our trucks like the Classic V-8 guys do.

And well NOS, it's just about building a proper delivery system. I've seen 500 Shot systems on Drag Cars. NOS is just so hard because it's literally so explosive. While at least with the Turbo and S/C it comes on rather gradually.

But just because something makes a ton of power doesn't mean it will suit your needs.

Yes, a S/C will have a small amount of parasitic loss at the start of the Powerband. But if you are Autocrossing this isn't an issue, because you stay in the upper part of the powerband throughout the race.

A Turbo does not have this loss, but it's also not as linear. You have Turbo Lag which means for a period of time you are not making any extra power, and need to build up exaust flow to build boost.

Well, NOS while it can make a ton of Power. It only lasts for as much NOS as you're willing to drag around.

Don't forget also, that a big Turbo takes a long time to spool. So while you might see big numbers. It's going to take you forver to get there.

Look at those 1,400 HP Supras. They make huge power but are turds at the strip and on the Road Course. Simply because it takes soooo long to build that power.

 

[unknown]

but, if the s/c is a parasitic loss, then it takes power to make power. so if the stock internals can handle the load that it takes to make 400 whp with that parasitic loss, then wouldn't they be able to produce a higher WHP using a power adder that wasn't a parasitic loss... that is, if the pistons and compression are the weak link?????

also, no matter how big you go(within reason) your never going to have the terrible lag associated with a centrifugal, right???

 

[46&2_X]

but, if the s/c is a parasitic loss, then it takes power to make power. so if the stock internals can handle the load that it takes to make 400 whp with that parasitic loss, then wouldn't they be able to produce a higher WHP using a power adder that wasn't a parasitic loss... that is, if the pistons and compression are the weak link?????

also, no matter how big you go(within reason) your never going to have the terrible lag associated with a centrifugal, right???

Huh? I'm lost.

Turbo's do not have a Parasitic Loss.

S/C only have a Parasitic loss till the S/C is working fast enough to cram more air into the engine than it would normally be able ot suck in.

A centrifugal supercharger has a parasitc loss because it's belt driven.

Turbo's have lag.

The bigger the Turbo, the more the lag.

 

[Toyotaguy_7]

the internals aren't that strong nos shocks can break the rods. If you have an x-1 tuner and a pretty nice nos kits then it can be safe.

 

[jaxchrisfla]

spray will be my choice. it will be there went i want it, and not there to wear on the motor day in and day out. im sure Ill run into times I wish I did have a t/c or s/c, but Ill live.

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

Lol because they decided to run too much boost which caused too much stress and/or heat?

I remeber reading a story about some Factory Racing team that was building an inline 4 for import drag racing.

I want to say it was Chevrolet. Doing their Cobalt Drag Racing car. Anyways.

They said in order to find the weak links in the system, they did NOS and kept adding more till something blew, once they were throwing a 300 Shot through it they where still running Stock Rods, Crank, and Block. Then they went to a Turbo, went through some more parts. Then back to the NOS.

In the end they ran off the Shelf Parts with the Stock Block and were getting in the range of 700 HP.

But really, this is kind of an odd question. Because all 3 are equally capable of making the same amount of power. The only problem is engnering.

With the Turbo it's pretty easy to go to a larger Turbo as you have a lot of options. The S/C could make just as much power if you had more options for them. As it stands right now (and I could be wrong) we have 2 options. URD and TRD. Both are ment for a rather streetable truck. We don't have anything like a 8-71 or 10-71 blower for our trucks like the Classic V-8 guys do.

And well NOS, it's just about building a proper delivery system. I've seen 500 Shot systems on Drag Cars. NOS is just so hard because it's literally so explosive. While at least with the Turbo and S/C it comes on rather gradually.

But just because something makes a ton of power doesn't mean it will suit your needs.

Yes, a S/C will have a small amount of parasitic loss at the start of the Powerband. But if you are Autocrossing this isn't an issue, because you stay in the upper part of the powerband throughout the race.

A Turbo does not have this loss, but it's also not as linear. You have Turbo Lag which means for a period of time you are not making any extra power, and need to build up exaust flow to build boost.

Well, NOS while it can make a ton of Power. It only lasts for as much NOS as you're willing to drag around.

Don't forget also, that a big Turbo takes a long time to spool. So while you might see big numbers. It's going to take you forver to get there.

Look at those 1,400 HP Supras. They make huge power but are turds at the strip and on the Road Course. Simply because it takes soooo long to build that power.

I wouldn't call a 6 second supra a turd at the strip. :laugh:

This is such a general topic of discussion its hard to cover all the points but here is the most of it in a nutshell:

1. Turbo will ultimately make the most HP but a custom setup can be pricey. A properly sized turbo will spool quick and deliver more power then a blower due to efficiency.

2. Supercharger makes great power as well (and can be cheaper) but will have a slight parasitic loss. A roots supercharger will deliver that power on the fly but will rob more power to make power. You can put together a roots driven setup for this truck for a fairly cheap price (IMO the best bang for the buck quite literally) in comparison to all the others, you also retain factory fuel management, & warranty.

3. Nitrous is great and cheap but is more stressful on the components then the other two mentioned above, and is not all the time power (or as much).


It is easy to make power, its hard to make power reliably. With stock components in mind I wouldn't want to venture to far beyond 375 HP.

 

[unknown]

the supercharger must be spun using torque that is generated by ur motor. typically this is in the vicinity of 15-20 percent of the power made, which is never seen because the supercharger used it. and yes, the faster the s/c spins the more parasitic loss you have. thats why positive displacement superchargers(roots/screw) taper off at high rpm.

also, centrifugal build boost based on rpm. therefore, the higher rpm you get the more boost you build. therefore, more lag then the worst turbo setup..... right?????

turbo's are a regenerative gain. they capture stored(potential) energy in the exhaust stream and use it to cram more air in the engine.

What is nos shock?? surely there is no such thing???

spray will be my choice. it will be there went i want it, and not there to wear on the motor day in and day out. im sure Ill run into times I wish I did have a t/c or s/c, but Ill live.

that's what i was thinking. everyone talks about longevity and bashes no2, that doesn't make sense. plus you can make a sexy sounding NA setup for cheapo(for all of you that like the way NA's sound)

btw, chris, who won that drag race in your signature picture? you or that srt??

 

[jaxchrisfla]

that's what i was thinking. everyone talks about longevity and bashes no2, that doesn't make sense. plus you can make a sexy sounding NA setup for cheapo(for all of you that like the way NA's sound)

btw, chris, who won that drag race in your signature picture? you or that srt??

I lost by 0.27

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYieCP9EAwA&feature=channel_page

 

[unknown]

I wouldn't call a 6 second supra a turd at the strip. :laugh:

This is such a general topic of discussion its hard to cover all the points but here is the most of it in a nutshell:

1. Turbo will ultimately make the most HP but a custom setup can be pricey. A properly sized turbo will spool quick and deliver more power then a blower due to efficiency.

2. Supercharger makes great power as well (and can be cheaper) but will have a slight parasitic loss. A roots supercharger will deliver that power on the fly but will rob more power to make power. You can put together a roots driven setup for this truck for a fairly cheap price (IMO the best bang for the buck quite literally) in comparison to all the others, you also retain factory fuel management, & warranty.

3. Nitrous is great and cheap but is more stressful on the components then the other two mentioned above, and is not all the time power (or as much).


It is easy to make power, its hard to make power reliably. With stock components in mind I wouldn't want to venture to far beyond 375 HP.

Why does no2 cause more stress to your bottom end than a turbo??

 

[Toyotaguy_7]

when you spray nos it hits the motor with a sudden power thus a jump im rpms the shock of the sudden power boost. have you ran nos before?

 

[unknown]

you in jax chris??