Blown Engine

[5H4D0WD347H]

I ran the 2.7 with my combo.

The 2.6 snout machining alone was making things pretty thin...

I have Map-Ecu3 for tuning. Definitely need to add fuel and maybe pull a little timing. Just wanting the most boost I can run safely then add a little nitrous for cooling

You wont have to pull much timing providing your fuel is good (important). I think -2 or 3 should do it for a 100 shot (with your current mods) if the temps are reasonable and your running on the rich side of things.

If the nitrous is pretty much a track thing for you just run straight race gas or mix it if you want to be safe.

A 50 shot on boost will make much more power (probably 25% + more) then a 50 shot N/A due to the immediate cooling effect and increased blower efficiency.

A 50 shot probably yields about 65-75 HP & 85-100 TQ

Also take into consideration this all power on demand (the moment the spray hits you are making all of this power, its not peak power).

65 HP+ from 3900 - 5800 is quite an increase when compared with other more linear gains.

 

[trdtoy]

Regarding rpms a burst of rpm is ok for short term short duration as long as heat is at safe levels however if too much heat is there rpm threshold is lowered. Also keep in mind you not only have to keep a close eye on rpm of blower but also engine, and all other pulleys, idlers, ect. It would be a good idea to upgrade any/all bearings with age on them or that may be close or beyond their recommended rpm thresholds for best results and reliabity. Of course lightening and balancing things in any rotating components also helps to reduce heat and wear thus being able to raise rpm safely. Boost on!

 

[grifter95]

Trdtoy.... how would 5800 rpms or less be any more on the pulleys then 5800 rpms normally? I'm not understanding the difference.

 

[trdtoy]

I was just throwing this out there to inform anyone reading. Food for thought that will hopefully help save some engines/bearings in the community and make more reliable setups. Info pertains to anyone/everyones setup not specifically directed toward yours. An engine turning 5800 rpm will not kill bearings as fast as the guys that may want to turn em up to 6200+ rpm. Some out there actually think they can turn rpm up to 6200+ rpm, trd sc with 2.55" pulley, and nst lower, and be fine all day every day. They learn this is not so either after reading about or experiencing a failure. Nothin but love here

 

[grifter95]

5H4D0WD347H... on your comment about race gas. What exactly are you saying?. That is nitrous is only a track thing is to allow the race gas in place of 93 octane to be the difference in my tune? Or are you saying let the race gas be in addition to the change in tune for safety? Have always heard that a tune way rich can actually cause quite a bit of engine issues. Kinda wondering where the line is between extra safety and hurtful.

Also been thinking since I am now forged and have lowered CR to 9.5:1 if I should modify my tune any? Before I was always around 10.5:1 A/F. My twin turbo GTO (6.0l) was professionally tuned at around 11.5:1 A/F at 7psi. Is 10.5:1 still ideal or should I lean it out some when not on nitrous? I always thought 10.5:1 was a little rich just for safety... so how much has that changed?

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

5H4D0WD347H... on your comment about race gas. What exactly are you saying?. That is nitrous is only a track thing is to allow the race gas in place of 93 octane to be the difference in my tune? Or are you saying let the race gas be in addition to the change in tune for safety? Have always heard that a tune way rich can actually cause quite a bit of engine issues. Kinda wondering where the line is between extra safety and hurtful.

Also been thinking since I am now forged and have lowered CR to 9.5:1 if I should modify my tune any? Before I was always around 10.5:1 A/F. My twin turbo GTO (6.0l) was professionally tuned at around 11.5:1 A/F at 7psi. Is 10.5:1 still ideal or should I lean it out some when not on nitrous? I always thought 10.5:1 was a little rich just for safety... so how much has that changed?

The race gas is just as a safety barrier for race day, and will allow you to run just about as much spray as your kit can provide with out detonation lol. Is it necessary? No. Can it hurt? No.

The quality of pump fuel is questionable, when tuning on the edge of the knock threshold and using the truck hard running on the race track all it takes is a hot lap or a good heat soak to set some knock off that you haven't seen previously. That is the differance between a race tune and a street tune - one is on the edge, one is more pulled back. Most of us cant afford race fuel all the time, but it is a welcome addition at the track IMO. You can run it strictly as a safety net or choose to take advantage of it and make even more power.

Pushing the limits of pump 93 is fun, make sure your tune is solid is all - the race fuel (104) provides the safety net and additional power if you want to crank things up and don't want to babysit your tune as much.

I ran 10.8 - 11 AFR on my truck and did fine - plugs looked good, pistons looked good. If you aren't rolling coal like a worked up diesel you should be ok. :top:

The main thing with nitrous is that you want to make sure there is always fuel in the cylinder to burn to prevent a lean condition. Having a acceptable rich tune in your truck helps insure that this is the case and also suppresses knock. The power you are gaining by leaning it out is really very minimal and not worth the trade off - I rather have the safety of the rich tune then 4 more HP.

I cant speak on terms of what you should or should be running at your advertised static CR, anything would be a guess at best. You need to get out there and tune it to figure out what is ok and whats not.

You can lean on your tune when not using spray, I prefer to run the tune I plan on using if I find myself opening the bottle on the street for some fun... If you find yourself in mexico and want to run someone its hard to justify stopping first to change your tune out for your N2O one...

 

[grifter95]

Still on the fence about which way to go and how far. Will be through with 1000 mile break in next week and can lean on it as it is and decide what I need to upgrade. May leave it alone and upgrade my twin turboed GTO (headed towards 900 rwhp) or I may jump on in to this and see what she can do. We will see. If only I had unlimited money and time... the things I would do!

 

[grifter95]

Well got to 1000 miles on new engine today. Changed oil back to full synthetic + BG MOA additive at lunch. Well drove the 30 miles home without boost. Got into boost once while going up stereo hill 1-2 psi and A/F went down into the 11's as expected. So when I got on my road headed to my house I eased into it and saw 3-4 psi of boost and held it there with 1/2 throttle or so... but A/F stayed in 14's! No knock... but never dropped down like they should. So I am reading boost from boost port on blower so I am assuming correct. Would the fact I was at 1/2 throttle or so keep the A/F from dropping? Or am I seeing a problem here? Going to hook laptop up to map-ecu3 this weekend and make sure its internal MAP sensor is actually reading my pressure correctly. I would assume 3-4 psi of boost would have kicked the A/F down even on the factory tune... so not sure what's up. But definitely didn't want to boost past that with lack of fuel. Guessing the flat road and lack of load allowed it not to knock.

So am I correct here... or is my thinking incorrect somewhere?

 

[trdtoy]

Boost will not make it go rich/open loop. Combination of throttle position, load, and rpm among other things will do it. From my experience it generally took 80%+ throttle, high load, and 3500rpm+ for it to go into open loop/rich. This is why you have to tune open loop and closed loop areas of operation. The middle ground transition area is always harder to nail down and a critical area imo. Best way to find where it makes transition is driving on road and watch a scan tool under different conditions to see what conditions are met to do so. Your reason for no knock was probably due to air temp being in check at low boost, lower load, lower throttle position, colder plugs, and remaining in closed loop where knock sensors would detect knock and pull/retard timing. Tuning the s/c is much easier to tune than a turbo...be thankful for that. Oh and if you drive in varying elevation your transition area from closed to open loop will be be different as well making it difficult. Turbo not as prone to this vs s/c. Wish i were near you to help you tune that thing. Take your time and work it out slowly.

 

[grifter95]

TRDTOY... that's one of the thing that is confusing to me. Truck is TRD retune + Map-Ecu3 as before with no change in tune since before the engines failure. So tune should already be close... as all fuel/air components are not changed. So I just don't remember this being the way it was before. Seems if it goes into open loop while in cruise control on some steep (for south ga) hills at <2000 rpms and 1-2 psi of boost it would also at 3-4 psi at higher rpms.
,
So are you saying at 50% throttle and 3-4 psi of boost it should not be in open loop? If so what keeps the engine safe? Lack of load? If it shouldn't be this lean... what steps should be taken to correct? Feel like a novice again since its been several years since I had to mess with this trucks tune.

 

[trdtoy]

TRDTOY... that's one of the thing that is confusing to me. Truck is TRD retune + Map-Ecu3 as before with no change in tune since before the engines failure. So tune should already be close... as all fuel/air components are not changed. So I just don't remember this being the way it was before. Seems if it goes into open loop while in cruise control on some steep (for south ga) hills at <2000 rpms and 1-2 psi of boost it would also at 3-4 psi at higher rpms.
,
So are you saying at 50% throttle and 3-4 psi of boost it should not be in open loop? If so what keeps the engine safe? Lack of load? If it shouldn't be this lean... what steps should be taken to correct? Feel like a novice again since its been several years since I had to mess with this trucks tune.

The tough job you have to do is find what conditions cause it to go into open loop/rich conditions. Each vehicle/drivetrain combo has its conditions for open/closed loop. Once you do this, tuning it will be much easier. The way I did this when I had my taco I would start low rpm at 1psi and hold same psi through rpm range to see if open loop triggered. Then 2psi, 3psi, ect. Then hold min of x load through rpm range to see when triggered and slightly increase load held each run. Repeat these severial times on flat ground, hills, different gears, and look for patterns. This is easiest and safest done with datalogs or having a passenger that does all of the data gathering and notes. Stays somewhat safe in above mentioned condition due to reasons stated in earlier post. To correct you need to be able to tune closed loop without factory ecu fighting you. Unsure on what tuners for the 1gr have this ability. Oh and be sure it getting correct signal/leak free boost/vac line to tuner or everything will get difficult and potentially dangerous. I wish I could get up with you to try and iron this out. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[grifter95]

Line going to the Map-Ecu3 is good since it is the same line going to the boost/vacuum gauge just split off in a tee. Same setup I ran previous. Driving to work this morning I went into boost while passing a car or two and it always kicked into open loop every time like it was supposed to. Maybe yesterday when I saw boost and held the throttle/pedal the boost actually decreased and I didn't notice cause I was focused on the wideband gauge and driving? Maybe will test more this afternoon or weekend. Honestly I should not have to change my tune as only change was lowering compression from 10 to 9.5:1. If anything I should be overly rich. We will test some more.

On tuning in closed loop there isn't any good options for me (2009). I just honestly don't remember it ever being an issue before. So I will be checking what signal Map-Ecu3 is actually showing to make sure its MAP sensor is working properly.

 

[trdtoy]

You need to tune closed loop for best results. I thought map ecu3 claims that it will tune closed loop as well? Not sure what needs to be done to tune closed loop with the 1gr? Someone jump in here and help a brotha out! Gadget..........

 

[Gadget]

You can tune closed loop just fine with a MAP-ECU. If you wish to alter fuel mixture in closed loop you will need the add on AFR Sensor Adjust module.

I am running the MAP-ECU on my 1997 4Runner, my 2005 Tundra V8, and my 2010 4Runner all with prototype URD Supercharger systems.

Just FYI- the Tundra and the 2010 4Runner were tuned in about 15 minutes and I have not touched the tune since. The MAP-ECU is a very simple device to tune and it works very nicely.

G

 

[grifter95]

Gadget... do I need to worry about closed loop tuning or not? Had this setup before without any issues with knock.

 

[Gadget]

If you only want a half ass tune, then no, don't worry about it.

If you want to do it right, then do it right.

G

 

[grifter95]

Gadget also if I get the AFR Sensor adjust module... how much wiring is needed. Don't know why... but I hate wiring under the dash!
Thanks

 

[grifter95]

If you only want a half ass tune, then no, don't worry about it.

If you want to do it right, then do it right.

G

Hmmm... wonder what he really thinks.

 

[Torspd]

Peanut butter and jam. Just not right without the other half.

 

[grifter95]

Well finally got the AFR Sensor Adjust module installed today. Been really busy with work/life and have been driving the "other car". Well fired up truck with no changes in the table. All O2 adjustments are still at 0.00. Well car is idling at 13.5 AFR range instead of 14.5 like before. Not understanding how simply adding the module made that much change unless it is simply the extra resistance from added wire? Will drive it after lunch and see if it stays 13.5 while cruising? If so I guess I will just add/subtract whatever it takes to get to 14.5 across the board and then tune from there.

So adding or subtracting makes the AFR go down (more rich)?

Also I know in boost where I need to be... but approaching boost -5" Hg to 0psi do I need to richen it up in the area as well? If so how much?

Thanks... feel like every time I don't mess with the truck for a while I forget most of what I learned.