Supercharging a 2TR Prado

[iniazy]

Yours fits stright in without modifications? If so, maybe I can have them replicate yours for me. I saw the Koyorad.com, but it seems they only make factory replacement units, not racing radiators.

 

[Torspd]

Mine had to have brackets welded to it, for mounting. I made sure that the shop doing the work reused the factory mounting position and holes.

Mine is a 3" thick, double bypass radiator. So the inlet and outlet are both on the passenger side. Unlike oem, where they are on opposite sides. So an adapter and new hose were needed to get it attached.

Have you seen the pictures in my build thread?

 

[iniazy]

Mine had to have brackets welded to it, for mounting. I made sure that the shop doing the work reused the factory mounting position and holes.

Mine is a 3" thick, double bypass radiator. So the inlet and outlet are both on the passenger side. Unlike oem, where they are on opposite sides. So an adapter and new hose were needed to get it attached.

Have you seen the pictures in my build thread?

I'm watching your build thread but never noticed how the Radiator is configured. I'll check it out now.

I'm thinking of getting the design from Koyo, i.e. dimensions, mounting holes, etc, and send it to Ron Davis to have them make one with the same mounts and everything, but with two or three rows instead of just one.

 

[Torspd]

That sounds like a smart plan there. :top:

 

[iniazy]

Got the AEM pump installed:












Fits like a glove, like it was made for this application. Only mod done is shorten the steel pipe a bit.

Salvaged my old broken MAF and MAF housing; now I have a spare MAF and MAF housing:

 

[Torspd]

Easiest pump installation ever, right there. Wow. I bet that was relieving.

What's the deal with the MAF housing?

 

[iniazy]

The old air box with MAF housing broke with the accident, and was replaced complete, so I had this to spare. I cut up the box and kept the housing as spare

 

[iniazy]

Finally got the Prado street-tuned. The local dyno shop had their dyno under maintenance, so I couldn't use it.

The 2TR engine seems to be made for boost. It has very low compression from the factory (9.6:1 according to Wikipedia). I was able to advance the timing 2 degrees at WOT with boost, and about 7 degrees everywhere else without a hint of knock. I also used a 70 mm pulley. I don't know how much boost I'm making, but I'm guessing around 6-7 PSI.

The power delivery seems excellent at high RPM. However, at low RPM, it is a bit of a let-down. I'm strugging to get the car to take off fast. I tried advancing the timing, leaning out the mixture from 12:1 to 13:1, but it seems it doesn't want to take off fast. It is inconsistent, at times it seems fast, and at times it gets really sluggish.

I'm suspecting transmission temperature is hot, holding the car back. When driving around the city it feels really peppy though.

Also, with that smaller pulley I obviously need a solution to my injectors. After 5000 RPM the AFR starts getting lean no matter how much I add in the MAF signal. This is an indication that the injectors are running out of juice. After 5000 RPM it jumps to 14:1. Surprisingly, even at 14:1 at WOT and 2 degrees advance, I still don't get any knock. I either need larger injectors or a fifth injector. I roamed the Internet searching for larger injectors that fit the 2TR, but no one seems to care about this engine Five-O injectors told me a 2ZZ injector will fit no problem, but I'm weary about that.

So I will devise a plan for a fifth injector. I want to make a throttle-body spacer and tap in an injector into it, like the one URD makes for the 1GR engine.

 

[iniazy]

The owner is not happy. He raced a Camry from a roll and he couldn't keep up with him. He wants more power. I think we're going for a URD kit with an upgraded supercharger, C38-91.

 

[iniazy]

I had another go at tuning last night, and the performance seems MUCH better now. The sluggish kick-in is gone, it is performing great now, except for a minor lean-out at WOT.

I'm going to improvise a fifth injector solution, I'm still not sure if I should have the injector pre-throttle body or post-throttle body. Any help will be really appreciated.

The difference between before and after is night and day, but the owner was hoping for more. He wanted to be quicker than a stock FJ Cruiser. I feel the power might be close, but he doesn't have the gearing in that pathetic four speed automatic transmission. So we are planning to get this setup working perfectly, then remove it and install a URD kit with a C38-91 blower. Still waiting on quotes from them.

I'm not going to put it on the rollers until I get the fifth injector system on, to be sure I will squeez out the maximum power possible from it.

 

[Torspd]

As far as the 5th injector is concerned, I would follow the tried and true method of post throttle body.

You throttle body spacer idea is a simple enough solution, as long as you or a machine shop can do the work right. Just need to find the properly sized injector.

Was there a Closed loop area that just wasn't being rwsponsive to the initial tuning?

 

[iniazy]

I made sure all closed loop tuning is done right. What I did to fix the problem is lean out the AFR at the area where the engine goes when it first kicks in, from 12 to 13.5:1 approximately, and then advance the timing there and around it until I started getting good response. Now it responds really nicely.

For the fifth injector, I went ahead and ordered the 1GR 7th injector kit from URD. Although there is a slight difference in the bolt pattern, I think the difference of two millimeters can be handed by boring out the mounting holes a couple of mm's and modifying it a bit to fit. 2 mm is a really small difference.

This engine just screams (I WANT BOOST!) Even at WOT and 7 PSI (gut feel, no boost gauge) of boost, I was able to advance the timing about three degrees. With 9.6:1 CR, I think the internals can take 15 PSI, with some timing retard. I'm surprised not many companies are making kits for it.

 

[Torspd]

People just underestimate the 2TR. That is the feeling that I get on multiple forums.

Minus URD, there are not many people doing performance to the 2TR. The usual comments are to upgrade to a V6. Or buy a sports car. Not enough people with the know how have purchased the 2TR as their starting platform for a performance build. So those whom have purchased it are to timid to do any real modifications and path forging.

I really am curious to see how your work pays off on the dyno. As I would like to share the results elsewhere. Keep up the refining of the tuning and keep the updates coming ! :top:

 

[imom]

I really want a boosted 2TR engine...but live in California. The other thing is I wish Gadget can somehow make the kit for $3K instead of $5K. It's unfortunate that I can only house a regular cab size truck in my garage, so 2TR motor is only option. Getting a CARB certified 2TR forced induction sell a lot more if it was more affordable. Too bad CARB is so darn expensive to process.

Even a phantom electric superchargers like the ones that are FT86 and Miata platforms would be nice on this truck.

 

[iniazy]

I really want a boosted 2TR engine...but live in California. The other thing is I wish Gadget can somehow make the kit for $3K instead of $5K. It's unfortunate that I can only house a regular cab size truck in my garage, so 2TR motor is only option. Getting a CARB certified 2TR forced induction sell a lot more if it was more affordable. Too bad CARB is so darn expensive to process.

Even a phantom electric superchargers like the ones that are FT86 and Miata platforms would be nice on this truck.

We don't have any emissions regulations, other than AFR. Our inspection only checks for AFR. So we're sort of lucky in that sense.

I've never heard of thsoe electric superchargers; how much boost can they make, and how much amperage do they drain?

Can't you californians just uninstall the supercharger, get the truck inspected and passed, then re-install it? I doubt the police carry emissions testers with them in their patrol cars.

 

[Torspd]

How the aftermarket would flourish with just an AFR test...

 

[imom]

We don't have any emissions regulations, other than AFR. Our inspection only checks for AFR. So we're sort of lucky in that sense.

I've never heard of thsoe electric superchargers; how much boost can they make, and how much amperage do they drain?

Can't you californians just uninstall the supercharger, get the truck inspected and passed, then re-install it? I doubt the police carry emissions testers with them in their patrol cars.

If you do web search for them: http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/ you'll see them on FT86 and miata forums. It's not those little $50 to $300 electric supercharger that is garbage...this a real set up where you have secondary battery dump pack that gets charged while driving normally and when you need it...you get 60 seconds+ of boost depending on battery size. I believe the boost is about 4 PSI of boost. It's not to compete against a full time force induction and not meant for race track, but rather daily driver. You really can't go more than a minute of full boost without getting into trouble. It's also only $1500 and be removed rather quickly. Quite a few of the BRZ and FR-S folks are running these kits.

Oz Boost I would look into as well...but turbos are harder to setup and need to find an installer in my area. It's painful to install and remove unless you do this yourself every time you do a smog check. I just don't want to the first to get the turbo kit installed...I dont' have much experience installing forced induction system.

I just know that Tacomas are sold in the 100Ks per year... just surprise can't make an affordable forced induction system that's CARB certified...high volume design that is still profitable for the developer... hell use Chinese turbos or superchargers if they are reliable enough...or have a smaller lower cost USA made version. Just be nice to have more than 159 crank HP and 180 lb of torque...in a 3300lb truck. Miata ND is about 160 HP, but it's 1000lbs less in weight.

 

[Torspd]

A turbo mit on the 2TR would be so eaaaaaaaaaasssssssyyyyyyy. If only I were a shop.

 

[iniazy]

I believe the reason not many 2TRs are being force fed is because almost all cars that come with the 2TR also come with a 1GR, so those with performance in mind will always go for the bigger engine.

This is not the case in the GCC unfortunately, the most powerful engine we get for the HiLux is the 2TR. Although the 1GR HiLux is sold elsewhere in other markets, it isn't here. Another example is this case, the SWB Prado. So force feeding is an attractive preposition for the 2TR here.

 

[imom]

A turbo mit on the 2TR would be so eaaaaaaaaaasssssssyyyyyyy. If only I were a shop.

If I bought the oz boost turbo from Australia... do you know of a good shop or you can do it? You're far from California. But It'd be real nice if I could get 240 WHP.