Testing a Theory - Hatchbacks

[sixstringdave]

SUVs have 'lift-gates'. Not hatchbacks.

240SX also not a hatchback IMO - it's a fastback. It's a bodyline thing - hatchbacks are very distinctively vertical (or near vertical) whereas cars such as the 240SX, 350Z, Mustang, Scion TC, etc. are all fastback bodyline with practical rear cargo access.

Classic hatchbacks would be the Civic, Golf, Focus, Impreza.

You say that is your opinion, but the cars you just listed are considered hatchbacks by the people that built them. Thus, kind of ending the original debate. At one point in time, Americans bought tons of hatchbacks. Now they are either considered something else and/or not as popular.

 

[Murderface]

An SUV's lift gate/hatch is exactly like a "hatchbacks", it is from roof all the way to the bumper at the same basic angle.

If u wanna argue that a wagon is a hatchback then and SUV has to be in the same category since the only difference is that it has more ground clearance

 

[Kevin S.]

the porsche panamera and the ferrari FF is a "hatchback" lol - i imagine these will decline in value rapidly (at least in the states).

 

[revobreaker]

Saw one of those porsches on sunday. I would drive one

 

[trd_sport]

so all pick ups with campers are hatcbacks? lol h1 hatchback? lol

nah dawg......thats what you call a p u ss y wagon

 

[cwatt]

You say that is your opinion, but the cars you just listed are considered hatchbacks by the people that built them. Thus, kind of ending the original debate. At one point in time, Americans bought tons of hatchbacks. Now they are either considered something else and/or not as popular.

In no way are those vehicles hatchbacks, nor are they considered hatchbacks by the people that make them.

They are coupes, through and through. I have never -not once- heard anyone refer to a Mustang as a hatchback. Not once. Ever. (lol).

Nissan 370Z Coupe

so all pick ups with campers are hatcbacks? lol h1 hatchback? lol

Good laugh. Thank you.

the porsche panamera and the ferrari FF is a "hatchback" lol - i imagine these will decline in value rapidly (at least in the states).

The FF is a shooting brake. I've been trying to keep this out of the debate b.c some people are still struggling with establishing a hatchback to begin with.

Here's a quote...

Automotive designer Peter Horbury described the contemporary three-door shooting-brake, saying
it is not your basic two-door hatchback, a body style with different proportions: the hatchback tends to be squatty, while a shooting brake is sleek and has "a very interesting profile." It makes use of the road space it covers a little better than a normal coupé, and also helps the rear person with headroom.

cwatt, you really got this 1 going. Good thread.

Haha, thank you. Not quite the discourse on hatchback aesthetics I was hoping for - seem to be more of an argument on definition and terminology. Nevertheless, some clear opinions seem to be fleshing out. Perhaps part of the American hostility to hatchbacks are their inability to define them in the first place... then again, I've polled a pick-up forum, so I really only have myself to blame.

 

[sixstringdave]

Once again, you are simply stating your opinion. Which is fine, but wrong. This mustang i posted IS considered a hatchback. Ford made another Mustang that wasnt a hatch that very same year. It was a Coupe. Not a fastback. Maybe in Canada they dont refer to them as such, but i thought the topic was about what Americans consider they are. Google 'Ford Mustang Hatchback' and Ford Mustang Coupe'

This is a coupe

This is a hatchback

Hell, i can even bring up the honda CRX. Would you consider that a hatchback??

 

[roy365]

If the vehicle has glass in the part that raises up (from the factory) people tend to cross it up, or put it in the same category as a "hatchback". This is quite the pissing contest!

 

[sixstringdave]

If the vehicle has glass in the part that raises up (from the factory) people tend to cross it up, or put it in the same category as a "hatchback". This is quite the pissing contest!

NO. Dont try to turn this into something it is not. No contest here, just a friendly discussion with fellow X's

 

[roy365]

NO. Dont try to turn this into something it is not. No contest here, just a friendly discussion with fellow X's

That's your opinion......sound familiar? :laugh: From my view it's a full blown "hey ya'll look at how far I can piss" contest with no clear winners. Nobody will win this discussion because it's based on OPINIONS. Oh...and by the way you forgot to add the famous "notch back" Mustang as well. :rofl:

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notchback[/ame]

 

[sixstringdave]

Your are incorrect bro. Its not my opinion that they are hatch or coupe. Its what ford was calling them. I really dont see this as a contest. He is stating opinion, i am stating facts with pics of the difference. Maybe the mustang during those years are an exception to this discussion cause it seems to stand alone in this regard?? Maybe its a bad example? But it is FACT that that model had a Hatchback and a Coupe. Not an opinion...

My intention wasn't to "piss" farther than anyone. And i am not sure how it is perceived that way. If so, then i apologize.

And perhaps i should back up what i say even further. Just so not to be confused with "opinion"

The 1979 Mustang was based on the longer Fox platform (initially developed for the 1978 Ford Fairmont and Mercury Zephyr). The interior was restyled to accommodate four people in comfort despite a smaller rear seat. Body styles included a coupé, (notchback), hatchback, and convertible. Available trim levels included L, GL, GLX, LX, GT, Turbo GT (1983–84), SVO (1984–86), Cobra (1979–81; 1993),Cobra R (1993),and Ghia.

Copied from Mustang Wiki

And also this:

The American Heritage Dictionary defines a hatchback as "having a sloping back with a hinged rear door that opens upward.

Copied from Wiki again when looking up "hatchback"

I will say again that i apologize for any offense to anyone in this thread. I'd rather it be called a discussion with fellow brothers on the forum than it be called something derogatory. Implying that i am not getting along or am trying to fight a fellow X brother makes me feel bad. This site is too good for that IN MY OPINION. :wink:

 

[Murderface]

It ISconsidered a discussion, this Roy365 guy has us all wrong here. No one here is considering this a pissing match but him. Aren't these types of threads the most interesting when they're going back and forth about about facts and opinions?

I say we should carry on with our facts/opinions about this topic, more fun this way

 

[roy365]

You do know that Wikipedia is not a credible source don't you? No college's allow their students to use Wikipedia for citing sources because anyone can change the data listed. So anyone linking Wikipedia (even me) references needs to back up and use a credible source....i.e. a Ford, Chevy, etc publication of the specified auto. I'm not trying to start an argument myself either, it just appears to me that 95% of the replies here are based on opinion vs. fact. Hence the pissing contest reference. I agree with your facts, but not everyone else will, or does.

My personal belief with why "Americans hate hatchbacks" is because they are so close in resemblence to a wagon. And with the most valiant effort by auto MFR's to make them sporty, they still have to appearance of a lift gate, wagon appearance to most.

It ISconsidered a discussion, this Roy365 guy has us all wrong here. No one here is considering this a pissing match but him. Aren't these types of threads the most interesting when they're going back and forth about about facts and opinions?

I say we should carry on with our facts/opinions about this topic, more fun this way

Dude I've bit my lip more times than not on you targeting me on here. Time to add you to the ignore list before things get ugly. I am stating my opinion just like you are "bro". If you don't agree then move on.....no need to make a specific post about my replies that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread. :rolleyez:

 

[Kevin S.]

You do know that Wikipedia is not a credible source don't you? No college's allow their students to use Wikipedia for citing sources because anyone can change the data listed. So anyone linking Wikipedia (even me) references needs to back up and use a credible source....i.e. a Ford, Chevy, etc publication of the specified auto. I'm not trying to start an argument myself either, it just appears to me that 95% of the replies here are based on opinion vs. fact. Hence the pissing contest reference. I agree with your facts, but not everyone else will, or does.

My personal belief with why "Americans hate hatchbacks" is because they are so close in resemblence to a wagon. And with the most valiant effort by auto MFR's to make them sporty, they still have to appearance of a lift gate, wagon appearance to most.



Dude I've bit my lip more times than not on you targeting me on here. Time to add you to the ignore list before things get ugly. I am stating my opinion just like you are "bro". If you don't agree then move on.....no need to make a specific post about my replies that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread. :rolleyez:

Lame!
:thumbdown:

 

[Rat Rod]

so the mini cooper clubman is not a hatch because it has doors ? implying that older suburbans could be had in either hatchback or suv form depnding on the rear configuration? also hardtop vette hatchback ftw zr1 hatchback XD

 

[cwatt]

He is stating opinion, i am stating facts with pics of the difference.

That's rather ignorant. If you had bothered to click the Nissan Link you'd see a big picture advertising the 2013 Nissan 370Z COUPE.

You're trying to compartmentalize hatchbacks based on lift mechanisms, and that's not the defining criteria. It's all about body-lines. I noticed you avoided commenting on what a shooting brake is. It's not a hatchback, nor is it a coupe, nor fastback, or notchback. It's its own shape.

Consider this - Scion chose to put a more traditional 'trunk' on their FR-S. It's a coupe. No debate. If they had chosen to incorporate the rear glass into the lift assembly like they did on the tC, by your definition it would be a hatchback. But it wouldn't be. The shape would remain identical, and the car would remain a coupe. Oh, and want some more facts? tC stands for Touring Coupe. Try telling me Scion considers it a hatchback. SHUT DOWN ! (lol)

In all seriousness, maybe its this very debate that has Americans wondering. What is the hatchback? What's its purpose? Unfortunately, this thread has seemed to miss answering these very questions. ugh.

 

[sixstringdave]

You do know that Wikipedia is not a credible source don't you? No college's allow their students to use Wikipedia for citing sources because anyone can change the data listed. So anyone linking Wikipedia (even me) references needs to back up and use a credible source....i.e. a Ford, Chevy, etc publication of the specified auto. I'm not trying to start an argument myself either, it just appears to me that 95% of the replies here are based on opinion vs. fact. Hence the pissing contest reference. I agree with your facts, but not everyone else will, or does.

My personal belief with why "Americans hate hatchbacks" is because they are so close in resemblence to a wagon. And with the most valiant effort by auto MFR's to make them sporty, they still have to appearance of a lift gate, wagon appearance to most.



Dude I've bit my lip more times than not on you targeting me on here. Time to add you to the ignore list before things get ugly. I am stating my opinion just like you are "bro". If you don't agree then move on.....no need to make a specific post about my replies that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread. :rolleyez:

Thats why i also quoted the American Heritage Dictionary. Maybe that's not a credible source either :rolleyez:

 

[Murderface]

Dude I've bit my lip more times than not on you targeting me on here. Time to add you to the ignore list before things get ugly. I am stating my opinion just like you are "bro". If you don't agree then move on.....no need to make a specific post about my replies that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread. :rolleyez:

Really? Me stating that u had it wrong about it not being a pissing match is warrant for the "ignore list". not sure what I could've possible said in the past that would've made u soooo upset at me:laugh: Are u in 3rd grade or something cause u gotta put me on the ignore list:rofl: Never had I made a personal attack at u and I never would, people on here know my sense of humor and if u can't understand it then so be it, break up with me and add me to ur "ignore list"

One question for u.......did u to to the beach last night?

 

[sixstringdave]

That's rather ignorant. If you had bothered to click the Nissan Link you'd see a big picture advertising the 2013 Nissan 370Z COUPE.

You're trying to compartmentalize hatchbacks based on lift mechanisms, and that's not the defining criteria. It's all about body-lines. I noticed you avoided commenting on what a shooting brake is. It's not a hatchback, nor is it a coupe, nor fastback, or notchback. It's its own shape.

Consider this - Scion chose to put a more traditional 'trunk' on their FR-S. It's a coupe. No debate. If they had chosen to incorporate the rear glass into the lift assembly like they did on the tC, by your definition it would be a hatchback. But it wouldn't be. The shape would remain identical, and the car would remain a coupe. Oh, and want some more facts? tC stands for Touring Coupe. Try telling me Scion considers it a hatchback. SHUT DOWN ! (lol)

In all seriousness, maybe its this very debate that has Americans wondering. What is the hatchback? What's its purpose? Unfortunately, this thread has seemed to miss answering these very questions. ugh.

Didnt see Shooting brake and dont even know what that is, heh. And i did mention the definition doesnt only suggest the lift mech. It talks about the body lines.

To say its ignorant is a bit much. I did look at your link. And my examples were the fox body Mustang. And it is fact that they were marketed and referred to as hatchbacks. You said they werent cause you didnt think they were. Thats an opinion, right? I am not sure why you are all fired up man.

 

[Murderface]

Colin does the outcome of this thread really have u upset? Did u go to the beach last night? IMO these kinda debates make it more interesting