How much Boost

[Bulldogger]

How much boost can the 4.0 v6 take and still get decent longevity from it.

 

[Gadget]

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop??

Way to many variables to provide a decent answer.

G

 

[Bulldogger]

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop??

Way to many variables to provide a decent answer.

G

Not really, figuring a safe 93* octane tune without max timing, how well can the ring lands hold up.
I'm running a stock Z06 with 8lbs along with hundreds of others and longevity is making it easily 60-70,000 no problems. Turn the boost up to 12lbs and you're done by 20,000 miles. You sell supercharger kits you must have some type of idea.

 

[1GRracer]

8-10psi is a safe amount of power.

 

[Bulldogger]

At 8-10psi with Long tubes and hiflo cats what kind of horsepower at the wheels

 

[1GRracer]

What kind of supercharger? Coupe made around 350-360 with a TRD and Butters made around 400. I'm just going by memory.

 

[Bulldogger]

Looking at a URD. Centrifugal, may consider the TRD

 

[X-roller]

Well 10 psi on what size of turbo or supercharger? I mean it's like saying 10 psi on a t28 compared to 10 psi on a gt35r..... a zo6 on 8-10 psi won't last as long if it's the gt35r now compared to a t28.... it's a dumb comparison

 

[Bulldogger]

Well 10 psi on what size of turbo or supercharger? I mean it's like saying 10 psi on a t28 compared to 10 psi on a gt35r..... a zo6 on 8-10 psi won't last as long if it's the gt35r now compared to a t28.... it's a dumb comparison

Well that's not really correct because on the GT500 you can run a TVS 2.3l or a KB 2.8 mamoth both can make 700rwhp. The mamoth has more potential for higher horsepower, but when properly pullied with a 3.0 will make around 700 rwhp safely . It's only a dumb comparison if one is moving consideably more CFM then the other. Being URD is using a Rotrex supercharger I'm sure they priority size matched one to the 4.0 engine, similar to the TRD. Just like Vortech makes a v-1 to a v-9 and a v-20 unit based on different applications, but based on your dumb comparison comment I'm sure you already knew that.
Besides if you bothered reading you already knew we are talking superchargers not turbos

 

[justin13703]

Well that's not really correct because on the GT500 you can run a TVS 2.3l or a KB 2.8 mamoth both can make 700rwhp. The mamoth has more potential for higher horsepower, but when properly pullied with a 3.0 will make around 700 rwhp safely . It's only a dumb comparison if one is moving consideably more CFM then the other. Being URD is using a Rotrex supercharger I'm sure they priority size matched one to the 4.0 engine, similar to the TRD. Just like Vortech makes a v-1 to a v-9 and a v-20 unit based on different applications, but based on your dumb comparison comment I'm sure you already knew that.
Besides if you bothered reading you already knew we are talking superchargers not turbos

Actually bud gadget was right. Theres too many variables to be able to say for sure. My c38 at 7 psi is comparable to a c30 at 9 or 10. So the size of the unit is one thing. The setup and tuning are two more big variables. A properly set up and tuned system at 12 psi will last much longer than a sh!tty setup at 5 psi. If there's anyone on here that knows his stuff about boost, it's gadget.

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

Well the rule of thumb for just about every engine usually is 40-50% power increase = reliable power.

The stock motor puts out around 200 WHP, which means low 300s would be extremely reliable providing there is no knock.

400 HP is probably the absolute practical edge (should last a while) for a DD that is only romped on here and there; start putting real hard race hours on it and expect it to fail sooner then later.

I ran a TRD blower and used some nitrous when I really wanted to whoop some ass, it was a very reliable method of doing things.

You can introduce every variable that you want but one thing seems certain.... Below 400 WHP is safe with a good tune; above that you are pushing the limit just based on stock power output and internal component quality.

4-500 HP all bets are off and its a matter of time.

Turbo, supercharger, nitrous, w/e your poison - below 400 HP with a good tune should yield a good time for a while.

 

[justin13703]

But i would agree, an otherwise stock motor with a good setup should probably be ok up to about 10 psi.

 

[X-roller]

Not really, figuring a safe 93* octane tune without max timing, how well can the ring lands hold up.
I'm running a stock Z06 with 8lbs along with hundreds of others and longevity is making it easily 60-70,000 no problems. Turn the boost up to 12lbs and you're done by 20,000 miles. You sell supercharger kits you must have some type of idea.

:crinklehair: Yes because you clearly state here that you are talking about superchargers at 8 psi on your zo6.... because you know... we all know what you have done to your zo6...... :laugh: The only dumb one I see here is the one that doesn't have information on what he wants a question answered for... As Justin posted the chargers vary in size quite a bit on the rotrex kits. :top:

Well the rule of thumb for just about every engine usually is 40-50% power increase = reliable power.

The stock motor puts out around 200 WHP, which means low 300s would be extremely reliable providing there is no knock.

400 HP is probably the absolute practical edge (should last a while) for a DD that is only romped on here and there; start putting real hard race hours on it and expect it to fail sooner then later.

I ran a TRD blower and used some nitrous when I really wanted to whoop some ass, it was a very reliable method of doing things.

You can introduce every variable that you want but one thing seems certain.... Below 400 WHP is safe with a good tune; above that you are pushing the limit just based on stock power output and internal component quality.

4-500 HP all bets are off and its a matter of time.

Turbo, supercharger, nitrous, w/e your poison - below 400 HP with a good tune should yield a good time for a while.

This should have been your question. How much power reliably can this motor handle.... not how much boost can it handle...

 

[hottacoX]

Take it easy x-roller, quit jumping down the new guys throat! Always stirring the pot! Obviously the intented question is what can the 1GR handle?

I think deathshaddow put it best, it seems under 400hp is ok. Above is pushing it. We had one member with a fully modded TRD set up that was pushing close to 350 hp take his truck past 100k while another member didn't add boost(urd mkII) until he was at 120k and something like 10k later still going strong.

 

[Torspd]

Agreed with ShadowDeath. TRD s/c at 8 psi will last you in the 100k range. Then you will most likely need to replace head gaskets. Depending on supporting mods, that will be between 315-340 whp. Nothing insane.

The URD MKIII will net you just under 400 @ ~8.xx psi. cannot remember the torque. Efficient system. Will be coming with a very nice ecu, and the tunes are usually on the safe side for that specific reason. Reliability and longevity. You can adjust to your heart's content as you please though.

The rear two cylinders are prone to knock, due to being much hotter than the fronts. Thus a safe tune again is key here, no matter which s/c you choose.

If you really want to help it last, swap out the weak oem head gaskets first, for the Cometic ones, and some ARP studs. That will help with the safety factor considerably. :top:

:crinklehair: Yes because you clearly state here that you are talking about superchargers at 8 psi on your zo6.... because you know... we all know what you have done to your zo6...... :laugh: The only dumb one I see here is the one that doesn't have information on what he wants a question answered for... As Justin posted the chargers vary in size quite a bit on the rotrex kits. :top:



This should have been your question. How much power reliably can this motor handle.... not how much boost can it handle...

Really you should calm down with the off of the bat insulting demeanor. Not helpful nor necessary.

 

[Bulldogger]

Boost is obviously going to be related to the amount of horsepower. As you know 1lb is equal to about 10hp, therefore one is related to the other. we are not talking about what happens with a crappy tune or bad gas. The quetion was simple how much boost can the engine handle I assumed the answers were going to be based on a good tune. As far as the Vet goes it was an example that you absolutely can have an idea of engine longevity based on boost levels. Companys like A&A Corvette and ECS can tell you how much boost you can run safely. The guys on the vet forum also have a real good idea. That doesn't seem to really be the case over here. Only 1Gracer stated the amount of boost he felt was safe.
Some of you guys on this forum must be at a certain boost levels and racked up some miles by now.

Take it easy x-roller, quit jumping down the new guys throat! Always stirring the pot! Obviously the intented question is what can the 1GR handle?

I think deathshaddow put it best, it seems under 400hp is ok. Above is pushing it. We had one member with a fully modded TRD set up that was pushing close to 350 hp take his truck past 100k while another member didn't add boost(urd mkII) until he was at 120k and something like 10k later still going strong.

Thank you simple answer of what I am looking for.

As far as X-roller goes all forums have guys like him.

Agreed with ShadowDeath. TRD s/c at 8 psi will last you in the 100k range. Then you will most likely need to replace head gaskets. Depending on supporting mods, that will be between 315-340 whp. Nothing insane.

The URD MKIII will net you just under 400 @ ~8.xx psi. cannot remember the torque. Efficient system. Will be coming with a very nice ecu, and the tunes are usually on the safe side for that specific reason. Reliability and longevity. You can adjust to your heart's content as you please though.

The rear two cylinders are prone to knock, due to being much hotter than the fronts. Thus a safe tune again is key here, no matter which s/c you choose.

If you really want to help it last, swap out the weak oem head gaskets first, for the Cometic ones, and some ARP studs. That will help with the safety factor considerably. :top:




Really you should calm down with the off of the bat insulting demeanor. Not helpful nor necessary.

I knew you guys were out there:top: I haven't decided which supercharger kit I want TRD or URD. URD still needs to finish up ther APRx-1 replacement so there not ready yet anyway. I see advantages to both set ups so I still need to do a little more searching. On the URD website I don't see any different size superchargers listed only performance packages that add on to the same head unit. I guess x-roller must get a different web page then I do when I search URD's site :adore:

 

[X-roller]

Agreed with ShadowDeath. TRD s/c at 8 psi will last you in the 100k range. Then you will most likely need to replace head gaskets. Depending on supporting mods, that will be between 315-340 whp. Nothing insane.

The URD MKIII will net you just under 400 @ ~8.xx psi. cannot remember the torque. Efficient system. Will be coming with a very nice ecu, and the tunes are usually on the safe side for that specific reason. Reliability and longevity. You can adjust to your heart's content as you please though.

The rear two cylinders are prone to knock, due to being much hotter than the fronts. Thus a safe tune again is key here, no matter which s/c you choose.

If you really want to help it last, swap out the weak oem head gaskets first, for the Cometic ones, and some ARP studs. That will help with the safety factor considerably. :top:



Really you should calm down with the off of the bat insulting demeanor. Not helpful nor necessary.

Not insulting. Just stating the obvious. This guy just asked how much boost... Well that is going to vary a lot! then he goes and starts calling people dumb because we don't know how to read minds.... :stupid: :laugh: Like gadget stated... there is a lot more variables to this question than just the simple "how much boost?" Well if you really wanna get down to it. The plastic intake plenum has handled up to 15 psi but we haven't reached a breaking point for it. We are yet to see failure on a boosted application related to PSI so in all honesty nobody knows the real answer to that question because it is not the psi that kills a motor but the power level and tune. :top:

Boost is obviously going to be related to the amount of horsepower. As you know 1lb is equal to about 10hp, therefore one is related to the other. we are not talking about what happens with a crappy tune or bad gas. The quetion was simple how much boost can the engine handle I assumed the answers were going to be based on a good tune. As far as the Vet goes it was an example that you absolutely can have an idea of engine longevity based on boost levels. Companys like A&A Corvette and ECS can tell you how much boost you can run safely. The guys on the vet forum also have a real good idea. That doesn't seem to really be the case over here. Only 1Gracer stated the amount of boost he felt was safe.
Some of you guys on this forum must be at a certain boost levels and racked up some miles by now.



Thank you simple answer of what I am looking for.

As far as X-roller goes all forums have guys like him.



I knew you guys were out there:top: I haven't decided which supercharger kit I want TRD or URD. URD still needs to finish up ther APRx-1 replacement so there not ready yet anyway. I see advantages to both set ups so I still need to do a little more searching. On the URD website I don't see any different size superchargers listed only performance packages that add on to the same head unit. I guess x-roller must get a different web page then I do when I search URD's site :adore:

It's because you are a noob buddy. There is 3 MK series supercharger out now. The MKI has the c30 charger (smallest of the 3), MKII uses (depending when you purchased your kit) the C38-71 charger or the c38-81 charger, The MKIII will more than likely be using the C38-81 and possibly c38-91 charger. :top:

and just to show you even more.....
http://www.urdusa.com/Forced-Induct.../index.html?osCsid=lvt0m08kq1pu3eejuv1mgc46g3 - different sizes.....

 

[Whitebeauty]

Also so you know the APR X-1 is out of Gadgets controllable hands, Unfortunetly, so you know its not him. but he does have a new EMS system coming out soon here shortly according to the newsletter that will be replacing it. There are also guys on here with turbo setups as well..Me personally i would if it was between URD and TRD. I would most definetly support URD over TRD anyday...Plus if you look at the kit closely it is immaculate in the engine compartment. Well proven as well..check out i believe it is WallasX he went hot and heavy with stage 3 if im not mistaken..

 

[SooRunner]

Take it easy x-roller, quit jumping down the new guys throat! Always stirring the pot! Obviously the intented question is what can the 1GR handle?

I think deathshaddow put it best, it seems under 400hp is ok. Above is pushing it. We had one member with a fully modded TRD set up that was pushing close to 350 hp take his truck past 100k while another member didn't add boost(urd mkII) until he was at 120k and something like 10k later still going strong.

It was I who boosted with URD at 135K...as of today I'm about 164K and still running strong at stage 2 with not a single oil leak or a problem.

Look at the overall picture, if you have a weak engine and is not well maintained, boost is not going to last long. I wouldn't even consider boosting it or asking how much boost it can handle. I don't think the 1GR motor was built from the factory to be boosted like some motors are.

I think 12psi would be max, 10psi would be beneficial, 8 would be safe for longevity.

WallasX jumped into stage 3 right out of the box...I like to do my upgrade in steps and see how my motor likes it.

You can't compare apples to oranges as they say....LOL!

Boost # is over rated!

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

Boost is obviously going to be related to the amount of horsepower. As you know 1lb is equal to about 10hp, therefore one is related to the other. we are not talking about what happens with a crappy tune or bad gas. The quetion was simple how much boost can the engine handle I assumed the answers were going to be based on a good tune. As far as the Vet goes it was an example that you absolutely can have an idea of engine longevity based on boost levels. Companys like A&A Corvette and ECS can tell you how much boost you can run safely. The guys on the vet forum also have a real good idea. That doesn't seem to really be the case over here. Only 1Gracer stated the amount of boost he felt was safe.
Some of you guys on this forum must be at a certain boost levels and racked up some miles by now.

Yes but its important to specify the conditions of use and what power adder you are talking about.

A motor that sees more race hours will fail WAY sooner then a motor who sees mild DD driving.

Furthermore boost related to power increase is not really the best way to determine engine reliability; you should be asking how much power can this engine handle then start looking at compressor efficiencies / designs that fit the criteria you set.

Not all power adders introduce more power the same way, peak horsepower numbers do not reflect engine stress very well.

Nitrous or a TRD blower or a Turbo that is sized correctly can introduce a lot of torque instantly; this is what is going to break stuff eventually vs. the more gradual building power delivery of a centri blower.

Specifying no knock is also important as most do not understand the significant nature of the statement; if you understand that just a little knock due to w/e reason can severely deteriorate any engine life you had on the table then ok.

With a perfect tune under all temperatures, under all driving situations, with great fuel you can still have knock related engine failure due to other influences.

A little knock will not kill a stock power N/A engine, but it will destroy a 400 HP 1GR in a hurry...

It's worth mentioning since how much power you can produce for how long will be directly related to how you drive it and how much knock exposure you let it have.

The whole how much boost can the engine take question is just a generic worthless question at best.